The Mortar Thread

whats the difference between scatter angle and scatter distance?

Distance has to do with how far away your firing.

yup. don't depend on it to save a tank at the last moment, use it long before you think you'll need it. plus sometimes the first shot scatters to the side and doesn't block LoS completely.

now stuka smoke on the other hand... awesome global.

I would absolutely love using mortar smoke if it could just reliably fire in a line that you decide. That would make it excellent for screening and allow you to have troops follow just behind the shells landing.

Now, it's...mostly just there to get to HMG-garrisoned buildings because it's too awkward to be reliable for anything else.

whats the difference between scatter angle and scatter distance?

Scatter distance is how far (in range) the projectile can go from the desired target when it rolls a miss, in front and back.

Scatter angle determines how far the projectile can go from left to right, in a cone measured in degrees from the shooter.

So you put those two together, and then you can figure out the entire area a missed shot can go into.

I would absolutely love using mortar smoke if it could just reliably fire in a line that you decide. That would make it excellent for screening and allow you to have troops follow just behind the shells landing.


Scatter distance is how far (in range) the projectile can go from the desired target when it rolls a miss, in front and back.

Scatter angle determines how far the projectile can go from left to right, in a cone measured in degrees from the shooter.

So you put those two together, and then you can figure out the entire area a missed shot can go into.

I agree. i think smoke should be more reliable and fall faster to allow more tactical advances on defensive positions.

Thanks for letting me know

If we are talking about kill power the Soviet mortar is more likely to kill more squads because it's shooting at 4 men squads more accurately so it doesn't need to fire as fast. Wether I play 1's or not it's relevant to the discussion at all.

Oh it is relevant. Because in team games when your talking Balance you can have a Jackson AND a Soviet Player with Mark Vehicle. In ones you dont. In team games having dead weight squads is perfectly ok because the other team member can make it up for you.

Things like FHQ will not be seen in 1s. Also the Soviet 82MM in 99% of the games will not be seen. Because its a waste of MP in most cases. Its good enough if you can spam them maybe but for just one 240MP squad....not so much. Where Osts will be seen quite often in fact....because...it just does more in the way of killing things.

And the current cover mechanics dont make for a good excuse for it to be so terrible. Because its been this slow to fire since release. Its just the SU76 of Mortars. The only thing worse is the PackHowi or ISG.

Oh it is relevant. Because in team games when your talking Balance you can have a Jackson AND a Soviet Player with Mark Vehicle. In ones you dont. In team games having dead weight squads is perfectly ok because the other team member can make it up for you.

Things like FHQ will not be seen in 1s. Also the Soviet 82MM in 99% of the games will not be seen. Because its a waste of MP in most cases. Its good enough if you can spam them maybe but for just one 240MP squad....not so much. Where Osts will be seen quite often in fact....because...it just does more in the way of killing things.

And the current cover mechanics dont make for a good excuse for it to be so terrible. Because its been this slow to fire since release. Its just the SU76 of Mortars. The only thing worse is the PackHowi or ISG.

Whether it's better or worse than the Ostheer 81 is debatable, you say it's worse, I say it's about the same. But by absolutely no means is it terrible, the ISG and Pack Howi are finally useful with suppression.

The Soviet mortar is cheap, accurate, and is shooting at smaller squads than it. These things don't translate into "useless".

Whether it's better or worse than the Ostheer 81 is debatable, you say it's worse, I say it's about the same. But by absolutely no means is it terrible, the ISG and Pack Howi are finally useful with suppression.

The Soviet mortar is cheap, accurate, and is shooting at smaller squads than it. These things don't translate into "useless".

Cool. Maybe you can show me a replay of you using it well in 1v1. Getting say 20+ Kills which is pretty common for Osts.

Its bad. If the accuracy was 300% Better then your point would be fair. But its not. Even having less accuracy the ability to fire 3 more shells means it will get more kills and thus be more useful. I dont even know why your debating this lol. Its a pretty well known fact that Osts mortar is fantastic and the Soviets isnt.

Cool. Maybe you can show me a replay of you using it well in 1v1. Getting say 20+ Kills which is pretty common for Osts.

Its bad. If the accuracy was 300% Better then your point would be fair. But its not. Even having less accuracy the ability to fire 3 more shells means it will get more kills and thus be more useful. I dont even know why your debating this lol. Its a pretty well known fact that Osts mortar is fantastic and the Soviets isnt.

The Ostheer mortar is good, and the Soviet mortar is also good. This comes from the fact that one is shooting at bigger squads (thus more model kills), and one is shooting at smaller squads (less model kills).

While I may not play 1's, Iv never ever found the Soviet mortar to be a bad investment in 2's.

I did a some testing and was surprised by the results. When testing how long it took for a Soviet mortar to kill a gren squad (240 mp) in a building versus a OST mortar to kill a con squad (also 240 mp) in a building, they were even after multiple rounds. I didn't check green cover or on the move but suspect that neither is very good when firing at a moving target or at troops in green cover.

Note that this means the OST is killing 1.5x the number of models but it's still somewhat balanced as the reinforcement cost is about 1.5x for OST vs Soviet.

Precision strike vs counter battery and longer range is a tougher call. Precision strike from the Soviet mortar often wipes the OST mortar team so even after it recrews, it's back to no vet and can't counter battery.

In 3v3 and 4v4, I think the larger rate of fire helps the OST motor be a little better due to more infantry targets in closer proximity.

The 120 is still pretty good. It doesn't squadwipe as often (including precision shot which always seemed to wipe squads in trenches and other green cover) but it still sometimes wipes squads. It costs nearly double the OST mortar but that is probably a fair cost.

In all, the mortars are probably balanced but it still feels like the standard Soviet one often underperforms unless it gets vet 1 fast. I'll still often get one just to use the smoke ability.

if theres 2 decrewed Gw8cm or Soviet 82mm. Gw8cm always gets stolen, just because of that rate of fire. Accuracy isnt an issue as both are nearly identical.

urban maps like stalingrad, Trois Pont, Ettlebruck Station where spamming some soviet 82mm is legit meta, but just due to lack of 120mm because shockriflefrontline and how potent mortars are in urban maps. The mortars are bound to wipe something when 3-4 mortars homing in on axis 4-men squad, less so on soviets 6-men squad. All been said, 82mm isnt particular popular outside of 3v3 or 4v4, when theres 120mm for your picking.

if theres 2 decrewed Gw8cm or Soviet 82mm. Gw8cm is always gets stolen, just because of that rate of fire. Accuracy isnt an issue as both are nearly identical.

urban maps like stalingrad, Trois Pont, Ettlebruck Station where spamming some soviet 82mm is legit meta, but just due to lack of 120mm because shockriflefrontline

The accuracy is significantly different, if I can capture a mortar and I have the MP I will almost always do so be it an Ostheer one or a Soviet one. Both are fine for what they need to.

both are good imo. but ostheer ones are definitely better for me.

i have about 17 clips of rifle squads either getting wiped or seriously maimed by a Grw34 from the previous patch. sample size bias yes, as nearly all i was playing were the yankees, (especially considering the few times i did swap, my wehr mortars weren't ever as gnarly). but in my experience, something about that thing puts it leagues above even the 120mm and 250/7 for me. perception bias perhaps.

mortars are a lot more accurate, and shorter projectile travel time if the target is closer. Its certainly going to hit if the target is stationary or behind cover.

Its the same thing applies with ISG/pak howi.

I always get mortars. They are great in any engagement and do good damage against blobs.
I feel too many people I play with are not getting enough indirect fire units. Mortars/howis are great units for harassing enemy positions. Especially when entrenched.

However I've also seen alot of people just leave their mortar in a good spot and have it fire until wipe. You need to move them around.

If sovs have 3 mortars and you have 1. Well maybe your mortar would do better to back off a little and use smoke to support your now superior infantry to knock them out? Or maybe the map has another location your mortar can work on? (He spent alot more MP on mortars alone, and should be lacking in infantry.)

120mm are a bitch to fight that is true. Just keep shifting position and until you can knock it and it'll be negated.

As for balance it is asymmetrical. I feel (note the feel not knowing.) the ost mortar is better vs infantry and harassing positions. Whilst the Sov one fares better with anti-mortar work and pinpointing weapon teams.

I think that the Soviet mortar is too weak outside barrage, and that barrage is a scam on the Ostheer mortar. Of course, outside-barrage performance is more important than in-barrage performance, so the Ostheer mortar is better by default.

Would be nice if the Ostheer barrage actually improved accuracy instead of fire rate. The Soviet one lacks RoF so it gets RoF while the Ostheer barrage is horribly inaccurate.

I think that the Soviet mortar is too weak outside barrage, and that barrage is a scam on the Ostheer mortar. Of course, outside-barrage performance is more important than in-barrage performance, so the Ostheer mortar is better by default.

Would be nice if the Ostheer barrage actually improved accuracy instead of fire rate. The Soviet one lacks RoF so it gets RoF while the Ostheer barrage is horribly inaccurate.

I kinda agree, but this would turn mortars into 0-skill unit (SkilzMortarz). Just buy one, put it somewhere and let it gain vet. Counter barrage on that mortar is great though.

My 2 cents:

Precision Strike should be removed from 120mm mortar, in exchange it could recive some slight buff at vet 1 as compensation.

Counter Barrage abilities should be buffed slightly:
- GrW need extra range to have at least a chance against 120mm
- LeFH need rate of fire (reduced time between shots in Counter Barrage) because as soon as you saw first shell landing it is too easy to dodge the rest

Barrage abilities on mortars are crap compared to attack ground and should be reworked:
- Fire few shells with reduced accuracy (like 3-4 shells) but REALLY FAST
- Cooldown on autofire for some time after using Barrage

If there's one thing the soviet union had over the germans, it was artillery

I don't think a buff to the already powerful OST mortar and a nerf to the soviet mortar is called for