Kappatch 2

Obers are only nerfed in that their damage is spread around the entire squad, the actual damage output of the squad as a whole is largely unchanged if you buy the LMG. While I might lower them down to 380mp at some point, they're definitely not a 300mp unit.

Volks are indeed a bit crappy, thinking about what to do with them. The MP40 upgrade right now is a bit half-assed, it does do well against conscripts but that's about it.

Why should i bother with them? the reason they cost 400 mp in their current state is because they get the lmg. if i match the obers kar98 performance with other infantry their abilities and durability they should only cost 35 mp a piece and only 280 mp per squad.

also why buff the m3?
i would suggest you change the mp40 upgrade to a dual mp44 package volks are not suited for close combat.

also from this point on their is no point putting the okw flacktruck anywhere but in the base camp. to much of a risk.

Like the Conscript PPSh package, the Volk MP 40 should just made to deal the same DPS as a rifle at mid-long range so it isn't a downgrade. After all, the "long range" LMG's are still an improvement at close range. Besides, 5 MP 40s would be too similar to Assault Grenadiers.

I'm not really a fan of MP40s. I'd like to see them being replaced by almost any other possible upgrade. StGs, G43s, LMG42s, flamethrowers or just an "advanced rifle training" upgrade that increases their DPS without adding a new weapon.

Too similar to AssGrens? I don't think so.

Volks would be a close range squad like AssGrens, yes, but with way more utility because of Pzfausts, grenades, much better vet bonuses and less MP costs.

Sturms, again, are vastly overtaxed, especially as you absolutely positively need an additional sweeper squad at decent levels of play.

Imo Sturms should have one Panzerschreck that shoots more often, and still be allowed to get the Mine Sweeper. In order to prevent the Panzerschreck from shooting fast when used by other units, it could just be a cooldown modifer placed on the Sturm squad themselves. Although their StG may need modified to nullify the cooldown modifier, I don't know if their StG is effected by cooldown.

I'm not really a fan of MP40s. I'd like to see them being replaced by almost any other possible upgrade. StGs, G43s, LMG42s, flamethrowers or just an "advanced rifle training" upgrade that increases their DPS without adding a new weapon.

StG = Sturmpioneers, G43 = Panzerfusiliers, LMG = Obersoldaten, high DPS = Obersoldaten again. Historically speaking, MP 40's are the best choice for Volksgrenadiers as they were used in large numbers by Volksgrenadier divisions.



And for the record, Panzerschrecks on Volksgrenadiers is widely regarded as one of the worst mistakes Relic ever made. It was not in any way a good idea, let alone the best one.

StG = Sturmpioneers, G43 = Panzerfusiliers, LMG = Obersoldaten, high DPS = Obersoldaten again. Historically speaking, MP 40's are the best choice for Volksgrenadiers as they were used in large numbers by Volksgrenadier divisions.



And for the record, Panzerschrecks on Volksgrenadiers is widely regarded as one of the worst mistakes Relic ever made. It was not in any way a good idea, let alone the best one.

Nah. As a matter of fact, if you look at the nominal OOB of VG divisions (and the ID 45 OOB), StG 44s were supposed to be overrepresented at the expense of all other infantry weapons. In fact, 2 out 3 platoons in every rifle company were armed exclusively with them.

I personally don't see much problem with Schrecks on Volks. It promotes a boring style of their usage, but I don't see any more attractive alternative right now. I don't see any viable role for Volks without them, and Schrecks on Sturms just plainly won't work, at least unless the Püppchen is significantly buffed. Sturms are expensive and extremely slow to reinforce, they have to sweep, they have to repair, and they have to do the heavy lifting in OKWs early anti-infantry combat. As an intermediate AT unit, they will work even worse than PGrens, and Pgrens are backed by the infinetly stronger Pak 40....

StG = Sturmpioneers, G43 = Panzerfusiliers, LMG = Obersoldaten, high DPS = Obersoldaten again. Historically speaking, MP 40's are the best choice for Volksgrenadiers as they were used in large numbers by Volksgrenadier divisions.

What's your problem with having one weapon for two squads? G43s are doctrinal and I really don't mind having them as upgrade for Volks.

LMGs are not my favorite choice anyway but StGs wouldn't be such a bad idea, especially because Sturms will become AT squads later on.

I didn't say "high DPS" as in "up to Ober DPS", I said "increased DPS" (maybe up to Grens or slightly less).

Flamethrowers are the best choice IMO. OKW kinda lacks the ability to clear buildings and flamethrowers wouldn't make them too strong with higher vet levels.

Nah. As a matter of fact, if you look at the nominal OOB of VG divisions (and the ID 45 OOB), StG 44s were supposed to be overrepresented at the expense of all other infantry weapons. In fact, 2 out 3 platoons in every rifle company were armed exclusively with them.

I only know the basic squad loadout (1x MG 42, 1x MP 40 (SL), 1x G43, 6x Kar 98), I know that Volksgrenadier were divisions were smaller but armed with a higher number of automatic weapons though, including Submachine Guns, Machine Guns, and Assault Rifles. Nevertheless, AR's and MG's are already used by units in the faction, while SMG's are surprisingly completely unused in OKW. That makes the MP 40 upgrade more unique than any other option.

I personally don't see much problem with Schrecks on Volks. It promotes a boring style of their usage, but I don't see any more attractive alternative right now. I don't see any viable role for Volks without them, and Schrecks on Sturms just plainly won't work, at least unless the Püppchen is significantly buffed. Sturms are expensive and extremely slow to reinforce, they have to sweep, they have to repair, and they have to do the heavy lifting in OKWs early anti-infantry combat. As an intermediate AT unit, they will work even worse than PGrens, and Pgrens are backed by the infinetly stronger Pak 40....

Cheap infantry (235 / 23) with a medium squad size (5) and godlike veterancy are a terrible choice for AT weapons. With an AT Weapon, they gain Veterancy very quickly, and they have decent durability to start with. Their easily gained Veterancy gives them enough bonuses to make them more durable than Shock Troops, making for a squad that is not only very difficult to wipe without explosives (especially one-shotting hits like demo charges), combined with Obers for ludicrous AI ability make the perfect blob, one that can hard-counter Infantry and Tanks at the same time. It's just a terrible design choice.

What's your problem with having one weapon for two squads? G43s are doctrinal and I really don't mind having them as upgrade for Volks.

LMGs are not my favorite choice anyway but StGs wouldn't be such a bad idea, especially because Sturms will become AT squads later on.

It's just uncreative to use the same weapons over and over, MP 40's are unique to the faction. StG's are already used by Sturmpioneers, and might not be possible since the only unit in the game that uses Kar and StG are JLI / Stormtroopers, and only the JLI / Stormtrooper model has access to both Kar and AR animations.

Great patch, but I personally don't like the double shreck for Stormpio, way too costy and die fast, please give them single shreck for 90munition and minesweeper upgrade.

and I think a double MP44 upgrade for VG is more suitable(like vCOH the squad leader holds one MP44), the MP40 further sacrifice its long-mid range damage, which isn't a good upgrade for them.

I think cons should get DP-28 upgrade by unlocking T3 or T4, not just doctrinal.

and I think a double MP44 upgrade for VG is more suitable(like vCOH the squad leader holds one MP44), the MP40 further sacrifice its long-mid range damage, which isn't a good upgrade for them.

Like I said, the only model with animations for the Kar and StG is the Stromtrooper model. Also I would rather see the Volksgrenadier MP 40 and Constript PPSh aligned with rifle DPS at medium / long ranges instead of replacing them.

SMG's are the only small arms upgrades that lower a squads capability outside of the designated range, while LMG's, BAR's, and G43's slightly improve it.


Oh and by the way, vCoH squad leader shot his MP 40 on single shot with the same rate of fire and damage as a Kar 98, iirc the only difference was he reloaded less frequently.

There seems to be a lot of people theory crafting but not many people playing.

Anyone I can add to play some games with?

There seems to be a lot of people theory crafting but not many people playing.

Anyone I can add to play some games with?

I'll add you mate. But my skills are not that great

Relic cant hire Cruzz, unfortunately, because then many people would be out of a job... :/

The world needs more Cruzzes.

Wow, there are some really, really nice changes in this mod. I hope Relic takes note, espicially of these:

These changes wouldn't even require any balance testing, they just make sense from a gameplay stand point. If there was a patch that contained these changes alone I would be freaking ecstatic. Well freaking done!

Applied 33% range reduction on suppression to all grenade type abilities

Some formations have been spaced out. MG formations now try to place the gunner at the rear, and the other squad members forward of him, this helps a lot because the gunner will no longer be the guy being automatically targeted by the blob in front.

Removed building splats for tech buildings, no more spying through fog of war.

Territory points without a cache no longer block shots or movement. Victory points remain solid as before. This improves vehicle pathfinding on maps without a lot of space.

All 3 death crits (abandon, main gun destroyed, engine destroyed) have been removed, vehicles now always get destroyed when they reach 0 hp.

All mines to 10(35) armor to guarantee detonation with infantry explosives and reduce time to kill with small arms. Demolition charges targetable and target size increased.

Mine damage values split into 100 basic damage and 120 anti-vehicle damage for soviet tm-35 and okw schumines, basic damage now falls off in the radius so squad wipes only happen with extremely clumped up or low health squads.

Flamer death explosions can only happen to the last unit in a squad

Changed retreat range values to help the units getting stuck on retreat at base problem.

If you haven't tried it yet Festive, you should give it a go. I'm having a really good time trying out all the changes, even just against the AI. It's revitalized the game for me in a way no other mod has even come close to doing. And I found out today that warspoils still drop even with a mod loaded

Another change I would suggest is increasing the crew size of the OKW buildable Flak. With a 2 man crew it currently gets decrewed by a single shot from a Sniper.

Another change I would suggest is increasing the crew size of the OKW buildable Flak. With a 2 man crew it currently gets decrewed by a single shot from a Sniper.

Still fragile, but in Kappatch it cant be sniped. I would wonder where to physically put those extra crew, though...

Cruzzi? What's your opinion if getting the COH1 fast deployment speed of sandbag and wire to Pio, stumpio, Volks, Gren, CE, RE, infantry company Rifles?

This stuff should increase the strategic depth of the game, COH2 wire is too slow to be effectively letting players altering the environment for their advantage. Light vehicle also arriving too early able to erase the wire too easily. How about light vehicle able to crush wire but slowing the speed for a while?

Cutting wire doesn't making the cutter ultra vulnerable like COH1, how about adding this too?

Still fragile, but in Kappatch it cant be sniped. I would wonder where to physically put those extra crew, though...

Could just increase the health of the actual crewmen themselves.

For vet 1 abilities, what about an upgraded repair ability for pioneers and combat engineers? The WFA factions have a much easier time repairing their vehicles than the vanilla factions do. Maybe an active ability or something that can be toggled on and off (like the vehicle crew self-repair ability in Guard Motor Coordination Tactics)? Just thought I'd plant the seed of the idea

Easy eight change made it too powerful and cost -effective again.Combined with the reload buff to t-34 all the less reason to build panzer 4 with its poor penetration.
OKW got nerfed a bit hard.Overall u addressed all sorts of cheese but not maxim,which is a problem for OKW especially when combined with shock to face obers with no lmg -particularly 2 vs 2.
Was tiger change necessary,considering its already outclassed by is-2 at same price?

Other than these few areas i think it was just overall a superb overhaul.Kudos for being unbiased and thorough.Some really innovative changes like guards,mg spacing,usf officer buying etc.You paid attention to most dead units.

Next kappatch i hope u pay attention not just to balance but also to commanders.Too many useless commanders amongst the factions.They require serious attnetion to spice up the meta.

Another change I would suggest is increasing the crew size of the OKW buildable Flak. With a 2 man crew it currently gets decrewed by a single shot from a Sniper.

I tried that. The crew stands way outside the damn thing because there is no room in the flak model, so it takes them several seconds to reach the gunner seat and it looks really stupid for them to be standing out there. I'll rather just disable sniper kills on them than increase crew size if I can't figure out a way to get them to chill inside the sandbags.

Easy eight change made it too powerful and cost -effective again.Combined with the reload buff to t-34 all the less reason to build panzer 4 with its poor penetration.

.25 seconds off t34/76 does absolutely nothing to the fact that a PIV is far superior to it. Easy Eights I can't really comment on because I have not even been able to play a game against players yet where they actually showed up. If they really are overperforming that badly I will primarily start by reducing their anti-infantry potential or increasing cost though, because making them weaker against tanks just makes them more and more like the regular Sherman.

Was tiger change necessary,considering its already outclassed by is-2 at same price?

Yes it was. That squad wipe machine had to be changed.

Flamethrowers are the best choice IMO. OKW kinda lacks the ability to clear buildings and flamethrowers wouldn't make them too strong with higher vet levels.

Actually they would make them super strong, they would be by far the most durable flamethrower unit in the game and the relative lack of offensive vet on volks does not matter one bit to the flamer. I also don't think it's good design for the primary infantry to have a flamethrower, I was seriously considering doing something about the rifleman flames as it was but left them alone for now because they're doctrinal.

Sturms are expensive and extremely slow to reinforce,

Which is why they are the most fitting platform for schreks. The weapon is just too good when fielded in large numbers because the alpha strike without any reload time is enough to kill 90% of allied vehicles after you have 5 or 6. Too bad they have a bunch of other important tasks already.

I think I'll test whether I can force units to keep a weapon unloaded before combat. See if anything can come out of that vector of change.

Cruzzi? What's your opinion if getting the COH1 fast deployment speed of sandbag and wire to Pio, stumpio, Volks, Gren, CE, RE, infantry company Rifles?

This stuff should increase the strategic depth of the game, COH2 wire is too slow to be effectively letting players altering the environment for their advantage. Light vehicle also arriving too early able to erase the wire too easily. How about light vehicle able to crush wire but slowing the speed for a while?

Cutting wire doesn't making the cutter ultra vulnerable like COH1, how about adding this too?

Wire cut already gives 200% received accuracy and 300% received damage for the 5 second duration of the ability.

Sandbags, I'd rather not. Green cover is way stronger against non-small arms in this game than in coh1, if I made it easier to get green cover in every fight then I'd have to change all of those cover modifiers to worse.

Crushing wire slowing light vehicles down, maybe. I'll have to check if the crushee action will actually apply something like that properly. Faster wire and/or wire on more basic infantry? Not really a fan, I might consider looking into it much later but to be honest all I see coming out of that is weird abuse rather than "strategic gameplay".