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31 Jan 2015, 19:17 PM
#61
avatar of GuyFromTheSky

Posts: 229

Suggestion:
- increase SU-76 damage and penetrationg to ZiS-3 level



Why would i want to get a zis if the 76 is just as good but more mobile?
31 Jan 2015, 19:25 PM
#62
avatar of l4hti

Posts: 476

SU76 is more fragile than a ZiS.. 2 shots its dead, it takes more time to kill a 6 man anti tank gun, than a SU76. SU76 costs fuel, zis only manpower.
31 Jan 2015, 20:27 PM
#63
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Jan 2015, 10:57 AMPorygon



- Must be able to play within the top 5% of the community for the assigned game.

I doubt PQ having this :/


Cruz should able to match all of this :O


PQ was a really solid player and has beaten people including, but not limited to: Sepha, Ivan, myself, Lemon, and probably a ton more I don't know about.

Good notes though Cruzz, some cool ideas/changes. I don't agree with everything, but I do like most of it - especially lowering RNG with vehicles.

Although... it seems like you may have stolen some pages from Relic's playbook or have insider info... some of your changes are shockingly similar (read: copy/pasted) to stuff they're working on ;P
31 Jan 2015, 20:29 PM
#64
avatar of G4bb4_G4nd4lf
Donator 33

Posts: 658

AMAZING MOD! Really nice changes in there.


The MP40 upgrade for Volks seems like a waste of munitions though. 3 MP40s are terrible at close range and make Volks useless at range.

5 MP40s would be much better because it transforms Volks into real close range squads. I still prefer flamethrowers as AI upgrade :D
31 Jan 2015, 20:36 PM
#65
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1




Why would i want to get a zis if the 76 is just as good but more mobile?

- comes later
- cost fuel to build
- cost fuel and manpower to tech
- more fragile than ZiS-3 field gun

SU-76 is a 76mm ZiS-3 gun built on base of T-70.
Why it should have less damage and penetration?
31 Jan 2015, 21:09 PM
#66
avatar of GuyFromTheSky

Posts: 229


- comes later
- cost fuel to build
- cost fuel and manpower to tech
- more fragile than ZiS-3 field gun

SU-76 is a 76mm ZiS-3 gun built on base of T-70.
Why it should have less damage and penetration?


That's fair enough, i usually go T2 to get Zis and then tech to T3 or T4 so i was just thinking from my point of view but i see now what you mean. However there are lots of guns that were identical IRL but have very different stats in game. Relic has made it like this for balance reasons i guess (it feels so weird saying Relic and balance in the same sentence).

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Jan 2015, 20:27 PMCieZ

Although... it seems like you may have stolen some pages from Relic's playbook or have insider info... some of your changes are shockingly similar (read: copy/pasted) to stuff they're working on ;P


:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:
31 Jan 2015, 21:12 PM
#67
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Jan 2015, 20:27 PMCieZ
some of your changes are shockingly similar (read: copy/pasted) to stuff they're working on ;P


Theres hope!
31 Jan 2015, 21:58 PM
#68
avatar of l4hti

Posts: 476

Obers to 300 mp, they are not worth of 400. Volks faust should not be an upgrade, give faust when 1st truck is deployed. Volks are so crappy now, before they were over performing. Give then sturmgewehr upgrade (not the IR ones Kappa), or buff their MP40s.
31 Jan 2015, 22:00 PM
#69
avatar of Enkidu

Posts: 351

The quality of life change being able to upgrade BARs and zooks in the field makes me so happy. This needs to happen in the actual game. It's so freaking nice. The small increase in cost seems a bit arbitrary as if there's a time to upgrade weapons in the field, then the racks still provide the benefit of instantly upgrading when in base. I understand wanting to keep the racks relevant though.
31 Jan 2015, 22:30 PM
#70
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Jan 2015, 21:58 PMl4hti
Obers to 300 mp, they are not worth of 400. Volks faust should not be an upgrade, give faust when 1st truck is deployed. Volks are so crappy now, before they were over performing. Give then sturmgewehr upgrade (not the IR ones Kappa), or buff their MP40s.


Obers are only nerfed in that their damage is spread around the entire squad, the actual damage output of the squad as a whole is largely unchanged if you buy the LMG. While I might lower them down to 380mp at some point, they're definitely not a 300mp unit.

Volks are indeed a bit crappy, thinking about what to do with them. The MP40 upgrade right now is a bit half-assed, it does do well against conscripts but that's about it.


- increase SU-76 damage and penetrationg to ZiS-3 level


Unit too cheap for that and it would be too similar to a half health su-85 anyway.


Rifle Nade unlocked with t2 as per vanilla game.


Just me failing to add requirements properly, it is supposed to be locked.
31 Jan 2015, 22:42 PM
#71
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

As an example, it would be like giving Panzer Elite a P4. An extreme example, but lack of a medium tank is their designed weakness.


I don't know why people keep saying this, it was never stated that they were supposed to lack a medium tank, and before we knew what the faction design was like we had multiple pictures of the Panzer IV Ausf. J. We were specifically told before the Factions were revealed:
USF's designed weakness is the lack of heavy tanks
OKW's designed weakness is the resource penalty


I misread :oops:
31 Jan 2015, 22:50 PM
#72
avatar of pussyking
Donator 11

Posts: 551

Beutiful patch Cruzz, its like you can read my mind

Attention relic devs, COPY AND PASTE!
31 Jan 2015, 22:56 PM
#73
avatar of G4bb4_G4nd4lf
Donator 33

Posts: 658

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Jan 2015, 22:30 PMCruzz

Volks are indeed a bit crappy, thinking about what to do with them. The MP40 upgrade right now is a bit half-assed, it does do well against conscripts but that's about it.


MP40s are just the wrong weapon. Give them a flamethrower for 60MU and they are fine. You could also use the Volksgrenadier model again.
31 Jan 2015, 23:02 PM
#74
avatar of Enkidu

Posts: 351

So, I was thinking about ways to diversify OKW a bit and it seems like now that volks no longer have shreks, a raketten or two is almost manditory; why not add a little bit of functionality to it to make it more of a support weapon as opposed to something you feel you have to build but is kind of dead weight until vehicles show up.

Now that volks have mp-40s, you could maybe give the raketten a smoke round or something to help them push up when it's time to go on the offensive. Raketten smoke round: 15 munis, fires a smoke round exactly where you aim it. Or maybe an 30 muni aimed shot that puts a shot right on target to snipe an infantry model or two. Just something to give it a better supporting role.

Seems like the raketten has a lot of potential to be a unique kind of support weapon for OKW that breaks up their infantry spam a little but isn't just another MG or mortar.
31 Jan 2015, 23:06 PM
#75
avatar of Kothre

Posts: 431

Really impressive work, Cruzz. I know you aren't interested in adding new units, but given the burden sturmpios carry in this patch, you really ought to consider toying with a Panzerjaeger infantry unit. That way Sturmpioneers aren't doing the bulk of the work, and it gives volks another meaningful unit to meatshield for, while reducing schrek spam.
31 Jan 2015, 23:06 PM
#76
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9

Disrespectful post #48 reported - and invised.

Back to topic.
31 Jan 2015, 23:16 PM
#77
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Jan 2015, 22:30 PMCruzz

Unit too cheap for that and it would be too similar to a half health su-85 anyway.

Allright, how about swap SU-76 and T-70 in T4, T3?
31 Jan 2015, 23:25 PM
#78
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8




Why would i want to get a zis if the 76 is just as good but more mobile?

Lower damage, much bigger barrage CD, just as squishy as normal ZiS-3, except fears different things and can't be stolen(like anyone would want to steal SU-76).
1 Feb 2015, 00:08 AM
#79
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Cruzz the Volksgrenadier Panzerfaust costs 35 munitions, while the Grenadier only pays 25, was this intentional? Imo the Volksgrenadier version should be cheaper but not cause engine damage, for diversity's sake.



jump backJump back to quoted post31 Jan 2015, 19:15 PMl4hti
Increase Jackson penetration?

Cruzz likes the Jackson as-is so this is unlikely, I "argued" with him about it before :P


The MP40 upgrade for Volks seems like a waste of munitions though. 3 MP40s are terrible at close range and make Volks useless at range.

5 MP40s would be much better because it transforms Volks into real close range squads. I still prefer flamethrowers as AI upgrade :D

Like the Conscript PPSh package, the Volk MP 40 should just made to deal the same DPS as a rifle at mid-long range so it isn't a downgrade. After all, the "long range" LMG's are still an improvement at close range. Besides, 5 MP 40s would be too similar to Assault Grenadiers.


SU-76 is a 76mm ZiS-3 gun built on base of T-70.
Why it should have less damage and penetration?

Same reason the Pak 40 and KwK 40 have different penetration; AT Guns are simply better than their vehicle-borne counterparts for gameplay reasons.
1 Feb 2015, 00:42 AM
#80
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Jan 2015, 22:30 PMCruzz



Volks are indeed a bit crappy, thinking about what to do with them. The MP40 upgrade right now is a bit half-assed, it does do well against conscripts but that's about it.



[...]

Told ya. ;)
Again, putting Schrecks on Volks, while leading to a boring gameplay dynamic, was essentially a good choice, lest the unit becomes useless and/or a carbon copy of grens (ie. if you gave them an LMG or other long range dps upgrade), which would also make Obers somewhat redundant. Not that I have any better idea really. Cheap double STG?

Sturms, again, are vastly overtaxed, especially as you absolutely positively need an additional sweeper squad at decent levels of play.
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