Panzershrecks outrange T70 and T34

when do i say that zooks are a better overall weapon than shreks? shreks are better because theyre more reliable. zooks are very useful for dealing with light armor like the flak halftrack that has seen a popular rise now a day. they still retain some usefulness in mid game with dealing with, or fighting off medium armor, and can basically only take on heavy armor when shooting from the rear and flanking. where as the shrek is a pretty run of the mill AT weapon, the zooka is more of a rapid firing weapon (that you can get a lot of) thats best used when flanking to maximize your damage potential.

Never said you said they are better, this is what I said.

Right, but that's basically the problem. You can't just be like, well they are just as good, except for this really important statistic that they suck at.

My claim was that you said they are just as good. However, re-reading the thread, I mistook someone else's post for yours.

You did say this:

im not arguing that bazookas are just as good as shreks. shreks are definitely the better overall portable AT weapon. but the fact is, with penetration aside, bazookas do basically the same DPS as a shreks do. in fact, its easier to shoot and scoot with the bazooka because of the higher fire rate.

So my apologies for incorrectly attributing a quote to you.

But let me address some of the points you make. I don't think zooks are worthless, but they definitely underperform. I don't think people buy them because they are having trouble killing halftracks, they buy them to fight off armor. They can be useful against some meds, if you can flank or if you just have a lot of zooks, but it's not reliable at all.

I also disagree that they are useful against heavies in any capacity even from the flank. Both the tiger and tiger ace have 180 rear armor, king tiger has 225 rear armor. Maybe against the elefant and jagdtiger they'd be somewhat effective from the rear, since they both have 150 rear armor. Zooks don't really shoot that much faster, for it to be called a rapid firing weapon.
Their reload time is only 2 seconds faster, or 25% faster than the schrek. You'd have to perfectly time the "shoot and scoot" at 6 seconds for it to be an advantage. Also, their dps isn't the same, schreks have 15% more dps at max range.

shreks reload is 8.5, bazooka is 5.5. zooks shoot ~35% faster
shrek dps = 14.12
zook dps= 14.55
wether it be zook or shrek, i always fire the first shot, move forward in case the vehicle tries to escape, count to 5 or 8, and order another attack to try and get 2 volleys off before the enemy vehicle gets out of range.
i mean, you cant expect the zook to actually kill heavies, youre gonna have to rely on heavier AT like jacksons or p47s to do the vast majority of the damage.

Technically reloads are 7.75 for schrecks and 5.75 for zooks, while "total shot time including reload" is 8.5 and 6.5 respectively.

Which gives 14.12 dps for schrecks and 12.3 dps for zooks.

As has been discussed before, reloading speed isn't as important on AT weapons because 99% of competent players won't stand still for 20 seconds

Initial burst damage is more important

shreks reload is 8.5, bazooka is 5.5. zooks shoot ~35% faster
shrek dps = 14.12
zook dps= 14.55
wether it be zook or shrek, i always fire the first shot, move forward in case the vehicle tries to escape, count to 5 or 8, and order another attack to try and get 2 volleys off before the enemy vehicle gets out of range.
i mean, you cant expect the zook to actually kill heavies, youre gonna have to rely on heavier AT like jacksons or p47s to do the vast majority of the damage.

Technically reloads are 7.75 for schrecks and 5.75 for zooks, while "total shot time including reload" is 8.5 and 6.5 respectively.

Which gives 14.12 dps for schrecks and 12.3 dps for zooks.

Those are the numbers I was using. 5.75/7.75, hence ~25% faster. I don't expect zooks to kill heavies, but I expect them to at least reliably pen from the rear, which they do not. But like I said before, I don't think merely increasing pen is the right way to go, because then they are just schrek clones. I'd rather change them up in such a way that they are effective but unique. Like maybe high close range pen but a steep drop off. Or maybe something else.

Personally, I wish this game used deflection damage more. I think it would solve a lot of the issues with RNG in this game and with armor battles in general. I'd rather armor values be used as a damage reducer as opposed to a chance to do no damage.

Personally, I wish this game used deflection damage more.

i agree. deflection damage could be higher as well

Interestingly enough, from what I've seen, Bazookas and schreks do inflict deflection damage if only a few tank guns actually do.

Interestingly enough, from what I've seen, Bazookas and schreks do inflict deflection damage if only a few tank guns actually do.

It seems they do deal 25% of their nominal damage - so, 20 or 30 damage.

well that explains a whole hell of a lot actually.

well that explains a whole hell of a lot actually.

wat

Despite having similar DPS, the bazookas suffer from having to fire more. So while volks can shoot and reposition, if bazookas follow suit they lose their DPS. While comparing the two you also need to look at the squads they are on, Vet X volks are WAY tougher then riflemen. So often times were the volks can stay and fight, riflemen are running for there life.

A good solution to this balance problem would be to buff riflemen toughness when they pick up bazookas.

Despite having similar DPS, the bazookas suffer from having to fire more. So while volks can shoot and reposition, if bazookas follow suit they lose their DPS. While comparing the two you also need to look at the squads they are on, Vet X volks are WAY tougher then riflemen. So often times were the volks can stay and fight, riflemen are running for there life.

A good solution to this balance problem would be to buff riflemen toughness when they pick up bazookas.

When it comes to tanks neither unit is more durable as the defensive bonuses do not apply to tanks. also do not put them on rifleman its a newbie mistake put them on RE. vet 2 rifleman are more durable infantry until the volks reach vet 5. and its a hell of a lot easier for rifleman to reach vet 2 then its for volks to reach vet 5.

lol stray rounds are alittle dumb. There was a video where this guy's pak shell went across the map and killed the USF Ambulance. It was targeting the riflemen.

I remember that 4Head

When it comes to tanks neither units is more durable as the defensive bonuses do not apply to tanks. also do not put them on rifleman its a newbie mistake put them on RE. vet 2 rifleman are more durable infantry until the volks reach vet 5. and its a hell of a lot easier for rifleman to reach vet 2 then its for volks to reach vet 5.

You might want to educate yourself on axis tank vet and what it actually gives to medium and heavy armor.

Allied armor do not get defensive bonuses with vet.

About 50% of axis medium and heavy units do, that includes blitz, which reduces received accuracy and directly translates to survivability.

You might want to educate yourself on axis tank vet and what it actually gives to medium and heavy armor.

Allied armor do not get defensive bonuses with vet.

About 50% of axis medium and heavy units do, that includes blitz, which reduces received accuracy and directly translates to survivability.

good job on making yourself look like an idiot because i was not talking about the vet on tanks.

shreks reload is 8.5, bazooka is 5.5. zooks shoot ~35% faster
shrek dps = 14.12
zook dps= 14.55
wether it be zook or shrek, i always fire the first shot, move forward in case the vehicle tries to escape, count to 5 or 8, and order another attack to try and get 2 volleys off before the enemy vehicle gets out of range.
i mean, you cant expect the zook to actually kill heavies, youre gonna have to rely on heavier AT like jacksons or p47s to do the vast majority of the damage.

Your comparison in vacuum is irrelevant because in reality Shreks have no problem penetrating Allied medium tanks, they only struggle against IS-2 while Bazookas will have problem penetrating even PzIV. The only thing Bazooka is better at then Shreck are light vehicles. Does that make it better AT weapon?
Absolutely not!

good job on making yourself look like an idiot because i was not talking about the vet on tanks.

Nevertheless, vet bonuses are defensive bonuses and are in game.

Ignoring them pretty much equals to ignoring penetration when comparing AT units dps.

If that wasn't enough, we have defensive modifiers from command tank as well.

Nice try, but you're still a fool here.

Nevertheless, vet bonuses are defensive bonuses and are in game.

Ignoring them pretty much equals to ignoring penetration when comparing AT units dps.

If that wasn't enough, we have defensive modifiers from command tank as well.

Nice try, but you're still a fool here.

You really suck at reading comprehension do you? But keep going you may figure it out someday.

Your comparison in vacuum is irrelevant because in reality Shreks have no problem penetrating Allied medium tanks, they only struggle against IS-2 while Bazookas will have problem penetrating even PzIV. The only thing Bazooka is better at then Shreck are light vehicles. Does that make it better AT weapon?
Absolutely not!

True but that's why they are cheaper. basically you can outfit a rear echelon with 2 zooks for each volks with a shrek. but their are no medium tanks to fight against so the value of the zooka drops.

True but that's why they are cheaper. basically you can outfit a rear echelon with 2 zooks for each volks with a shrek. but their are no medium tanks to fight against so the value of the zooka drops.

That's also true however by doing so you are crippling your Rifles.

You really suck at reading comprehension do you? But keep going you may figure it out someday.



True but that's why they are cheaper. basically you can outfit a rear echelon with 2 zooks for each volks with a shrek. but their are no medium tanks to fight against so the value of the zooka drops.

Are you going to keep flaming people or are you about to treat us to more of your, German "Math" again?


Defensive vet bonuses on infantry are worth mentioning because there's this thing that happens when a tank isn't firing it's main gun- and even while it does- that just about every German tank has.


Its called a machine gun. You can't ignore them.


The fact that German tanks are both more durable out the gate, and scale better into late game via vet is still a valid point, and still worth bringing up. German-only Wehraboos might forget they left the difficulty dial jammed at the, "easy" position otherwise.