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russian armor

Mg42 constantly humiliated

16 Dec 2014, 06:35 AM
#41
avatar of joebill

Posts: 54

The only thing I'd change about it would be it's horizontal traverse speed (needs to be faster) and adding an automatic reload when out of combat( or something similiar).



Oh man, auto reload. Forgot that one. Yes please. All MG's should have this. Hell, every unit should just reload when out of combat for like 20sec.
16 Dec 2014, 06:40 AM
#42
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Have Grens engage enemy.
While the enemy is fighting your grens, move your MG in and set up.
Oh look, the enemy cant fight your grens now because suppression.



Sounds like your just leaving it alone and expect it to handle the squads that walk into its arc of fire.


No sounds like ur assuming automatically i'm noob.Been using mg42 since 2007.Never been so weak as now.I already do what ur saying.Except its easier said than done against sound players.I never LEAVE it alone,without LOS its even shittier than it already is.Right now even covering a flank ,or avenue of approach seems too much to ask from this due to grenade while suppressed or slow traverse/reloading or smoke.
16 Dec 2014, 07:21 AM
#43
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

auto reloading would only be slightly better than the current system. send in a pio/RET/ng, get the HMG to fire, retreat, wait 20 seconds, send everyone else in. it would be an improvement but it would come with drawbacks good players could pretty easily exploit.

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Dec 2014, 04:37 AMpigsoup


good thing mg34/42 have bigger arc

great, they have a huge arc units can flank through the sides of. flank the maxim, it rotates and goes back to firing.
16 Dec 2014, 07:48 AM
#44
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

I don't know man, the HMG42 is the most useful MG in my opinion and it's the only HMG I get every game. I also always use the +10% exp for HMGs for ostheer.

The HMG42 is the only non-doctrinal HMG that actually does damage. You might say it has less DPS than a maxim, but neither of them can actually be considered lethal with their regular fire because of suppression bonuses. But the HMG42 has AP rounds that make it do a ton of DPS for just 15 ammo.

It also does not have the issue of getting rifle naded from max range like the maxim, or having a 4 man crew vs axis as the .50cal, or getting wrecked all the time like the DHSK (seriously, that thing has like half HP of other machine guns and a lot less armor, the gun itself takes a lot of damage from grenades and stuff and gets wrecked FAST).
16 Dec 2014, 08:22 AM
#45
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

If MG42 had the 1 second shorter setup time of the MG34 it would be the best HMG in the game. But it doesn't. So it kinda ends up iffy with how many tools allied basic infantry tends to have against slowly repositioning MGs.

It's still a good unit even with the current setup, but ironically tends to be at its weakest when facing large numbers of allied basic inf, as opposed to being a sort of counter play to mass infantry like many people expect.
16 Dec 2014, 08:25 AM
#46
avatar of spam.r33k

Posts: 503

funny thing is the mg42 has way more dps at all ranges then any other inf/support weapon the osheer has in its arsenal (bar the sniper at ranges longer than 25m and the lmg at 35m)...
yet the damage reduction supressed squads recieve seems to negate that entirely

one change that should be possible to implement is:
let the mg use its incendiary ammuntion while moving or setting up... its nonsense that you have to set it up first and then go through a whole reload cycle to use it... why cant the crew just prepare for that beforehand? would help the mg42 a lot in my opinion
16 Dec 2014, 14:31 PM
#47
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

MG42s just need to suppress a target they shoot at on the first burst. The slow traverse speed, the extensive setup/breakdown times, and exceptional reload time, makes the second (and even third) burst to suppress a completely unfeasible task.

It should work in that a single infantry squad head on versus an mg (any factions version.) should lose, but the same squad should be able to annihilate the mg if approaching from a flank/outside its arc. The latter is certainly true, but the former is a rarity.
16 Dec 2014, 14:38 PM
#48
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Dec 2014, 03:49 AMNinjaWJ



it wouldn't really make sense if the gunner was the last one to die, but i think it would be better for gameplay. the chain reaction of soldiers arming the gun and then getting sniped off is horrible. It essentially means wiped squad from high dps units like obers.


It would make as much sense as an LMG teleporting to other models hands....B-)
16 Dec 2014, 15:36 PM
#49
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

MG42 was broken with 10% increased suppression bulletin, got over nerfed and then rebuffed slightly. It still struggles to deal with infantry (which is crazy) and is not as cost effective as a second gren squad.

It should receive buffs (as should all mg's, especially at suppressing blobs) and at that point we might consider a slight cost increase further encourage the use of it as a critical supporting component in the Ost infantry line "worth its weight in gold". I do not want to see the days of 4 MG42 starts though.

Suppressed infantry right now are too valuable to the player. They can still crawl forward easily, can throw grenades, and if they have lmg's, snipe the mg down.
16 Dec 2014, 15:53 PM
#50
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824

The problem is that suppressed squads can throw grenades at MGs that are pinning them. Maybe they can reduce the range of grenades while under fire from a MG? This would still allow smoke grenades to be useful but would halt ridiculous long range grenade throws from a suppressed squad.
16 Dec 2014, 17:33 PM
#51
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

The problem is that suppressed squads can throw grenades at MGs that are pinning them. Maybe they can reduce the range of grenades while under fire from a MG? This would still allow smoke grenades to be useful but would halt ridiculous long range grenade throws from a suppressed squad.


Why not just make it require less suppression to Pin? And does anyone know if suppression is range related? I want to say no it isnt but I am unsure. If it isnt this may be another good thing. The closer you get to the MG the faster you get pinned.
16 Dec 2014, 20:51 PM
#52
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824



Why not just make it require less suppression to Pin? And does anyone know if suppression is range related? I want to say no it isnt but I am unsure. If it isnt this may be another good thing. The closer you get to the MG the faster you get pinned.


Or increase the close range damage, 1200 rounds per minute at 6 guys one meter away should be a slaughter, but in this game the damage doesn't seem to change at all.
16 Dec 2014, 21:00 PM
#53
avatar of Enkidu

Posts: 351



Or increase the close range damage, 1200 rounds per minute at 6 guys one meter away should be a slaughter, but in this game the damage doesn't seem to change at all.

It does. A lot actually.

I think I agree with those that were saying the defensive bonus for being suppressed is either too good or lasts too long. I don't want to go back to the unkillable insta pin nonsense days but the game has changed a lot since then and it does feel like hmgs could use a little love in the form of suppression, damage or even a removal of the recieved accuracy penalty.

Not all at once of course as infantry combat is fairly dynamic right now and I'd rather not see mg stalemates every game, but maybe just a little tweak.
16 Dec 2014, 21:22 PM
#54
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Or increase the close range damage, 1200 rounds per minute at 6 guys one meter away should be a slaughter, but in this game the damage doesn't seem to change at all.

There is no second small arms weapon with dps as huge as incendiary rounds MG42 on close range, even obers are far behind. And even without incendiary ammo it does 27.5 dps.
16 Dec 2014, 23:16 PM
#55
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

And does anyone know if suppression is range related? I want to say no it isnt but I am unsure. If it isnt this may be another good thing. The closer you get to the MG the faster you get pinned.

Suppression is range related, at long range it's weaker, at mid-range it's stronger, at close range it's very strong. The exception is on the Kubelwagen, which is strong at long range and weak at close range, due to it's bursts becoming shorter at close range. Presumably to make charging the Kubelwagen less punishing, particularly one that has just "set up" halfway through the charge.


Or increase the close range damage, 1200 rounds per minute at 6 guys one meter away should be a slaughter, but in this game the damage doesn't seem to change at all.

The damage is much higher, but suppression is also instant cover that slowly degrades over time. So even though the damage is a lot higher, it doesn't feel that way because the squads become suppressed so quickly and thus resist the extra damage, which of course does lead to the problem of squads taking few casualties as they crawl into grenade range of a nearby HMG.
16 Dec 2014, 23:32 PM
#56
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Dec 2014, 21:22 PMKatitof

There is no second small arms weapon with dps as huge as incendiary rounds MG42 on close range, even obers are far behind. And even without incendiary ammo it does 27.5 dps.


Means nothing as vet 1 won't be available earlygame,And due to huge reload animation.Your sneaky attempt at circumventing the problem is noted with amusement as usual.
16 Dec 2014, 23:52 PM
#57
avatar of DakkaIsMagic

Posts: 403



Means nothing as vet 1 won't be available earlygame,And due to huge reload animation.Your sneaky attempt at circumventing the problem is noted with amusement as usual.


But hes right, AP rounds turn the weapon into... the weapon that you kinda want. It kills fast.





I never see Axis taking .50 cals and maxiums left on the field, but I always see them taking back there MG42s and 34s. I wonder why...

17 Dec 2014, 00:21 AM
#58
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13



I never see Axis taking .50 cals and maxiums left on the field, but I always see them taking back there MG42s and 34s. I wonder why...



Well, Ostheer it is more difficult if we're talking about right after battle since they will lose the squad if it's only three men and they only have 4 man squads. I've see plenty of OKW stealing weapon including maxims/50cals with their Volks while Osttruppen tend to steal any weapon they can find.

Soviets will grab anything since they make any support weapon six men which makes decrewing stolen 42s ridiculous and US grabs things just to keep them out of Axis hands.

Also because the support weapon share this weird thing. Allies want MGs that can hold ground, Axis want MGs to respond to flanks. (late-game this is not as vital)


17 Dec 2014, 00:26 AM
#59
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

I never see Axis taking .50 cals and maxiums left on the field, but I always see them taking back there MG42s and 34s. I wonder why.


I see Axis taking allied MG's all the time. In fact the M2's downsides are cost, tech, enemy, and crew related. The gun itself is excellent and nabbing one as Germans is rarely a bad move, since 3 of the downsides are nullified and the last one already applies to German crews.
17 Dec 2014, 00:40 AM
#60
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824



Well, Ostheer it is more difficult if we're talking about right after battle since they will lose the squad if it's only three men and they only have 4 man squads. I've see plenty of OKW stealing weapon including maxims/50cals with their Volks while Osttruppen tend to steal any weapon they can find.



This^. You usually want your LMG Gren out on the field and not retreating back to base with the chance of getting wiped because they crewed a weapon. Also Ostheer engines don't always get the chance to crew weapons like a lot of other faction's Engies, because they are the only repair the Ostheer have and are needed at a moments notice to repair vehicles and buildings.
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