Relic, an idea for Volksgrenadier improvement

volks can't have a AI upragde as long as cons don't have a upragde at all (non doctrinal). And volks with ST-44 with vet 5 will be terminators.

... and nazis zombie virus from the South Park: The Stick of Truth

You may indeed be overthinking it.

Remember people, Volksgrenadiers only achieve vet quickly because of PANZERSHREKS, and their consistent combat with mechanized units

This means that if you make your Volksgrenadiers become anti-infantry specialists over Anti-Armor specialists. They would then gain vet slower, and any that survive to Vet-5 would indeed have earned it.


Also I find that Vet-5 Volksgrens still aren't quite as durable as Shocktroops, just my opinion though I guess.

I'm not sure about the exact calculations involved with armour vs received accuracy so I can't comment with certainty on Volks vs Shocks. I suspect, however, the the difference in overall durability isn't particularly large between vet-5 volks and vet-3 shocks.

You are correct in a sense about how Volks gain vet rapidly thanks to schreks. That being said, it isn't exactly difficult to get Cons/Grens/Rifles to vet 3 as it is and Volks are the cheapest of the bunch. Add in an anti-infantry package and they should pick up veterancy at light speed - same as always.

I will say again that, if this were to be introduced, I don't see why anyone would bother with Obers again. By the time they become available you would already have multiple vet 3+ volks with automatic weapons that are not only more effective than unvetted (and probably vetted as well, given Volks' arguably superior vet bonuses) Obers, but are also vastly more durable and cheaper to reinforce.

VG 1-5?

I've got no idea if you're refering to vet or how many to give them.


If vet: Vet 0/1
If number of G43 given: maybe 2?

The Shreck blob does not exist because OKW is swimming in ammo but because they lack any other reliable AT-Option early game. Unlike all the other three factions the OKW has no squad based vehicle snare that can buy you time against light vehicles and scare away the bigger ones.

No matter what alternative upgrades you offer, the Shreck has priority in the current meta, at least for me.

I think part of the problem may be included in a lack of munitions sinks for the OKW, aside from Grenades, MG Upgrades, and artillery strikes, there isn't much else to sink munitions into.

Again something I mentioned in the past that no one wanted to hear.

What are you going to spend your munition on if you have no viable munition ability on most commanders, don't need any upgrades apart from maybe MG upgrades on Panthers / King Tigers (except if you go for Panzerfüsiliers) but have still a few starting Volksgrenadier squads left that barely fill a role in the late game without an upgrade, as your opponent has now infantry squads that do a ton more damage? Yeah, you give them a Panzerschreck to make them able to stay relevant in late game against tanks.

Of course, you also spend a bit munition on grenades and mines, but usually not too much. The rest of your munition is often just transfered into fuel.

Soviets are similar in that way, as they also don't have many useful upgrades to spend their munition on. Instead of Panzerschrecks they just throw incendiary barrages and other commander abilities (because they actually have viable ones) at you all the time. At least that is my personal experience.

So if you don't want to see so many Panzerschrecks, you have a few possibilities. You can give OKW more viable choices to spend their munition on, like an anti-infantry upgrade for Volksgrenadiers, better commander abilities, more upgrade choices for other units. You can reduce munition income for OKW further (which I don't see justified). You can give more attractive anti-tank weapons (I am mostly looking at the Püppchen). Or you can just nerf Panzerschrecks so they become useless and a waste of munition (or just remove the upgrade).

I can see it already: T3 fuel to munitions, into volks and raketan spam, with the sturm officer, into JT.


How about nerfing shreks long range accuracy, and adding a muni cost to lmg34. Problem solved.

So you think that the way to stop the schrek spam and obersoldaten killing everthing is to give them even MORE options. What's stopping them from doing the same old thing. This makes no sense.

Pretty much this.

Pretty much this.

They will pity the automatic package for not being used.

An mp44 package should be purely doctrinal. also if you buy the package you no longer can buy the shrek.

Remove Panzerschreck upgrade on Volksgrenadiers. It just doesn't work that well on such a unit, regardless if it's historically acceptable or not. Gameplay wise giving such a strong upgrade to such a cheap squad with a high model count with pretty much downside causes massive problems.

Put the Panzerschreck upgrade back on the Sturmpios, but disable their repair and building abilities if upgraded. Alternatively give it to Obers for a really small munition cost, but removing their LMG34. This way there is an actual thought process behind getting the upgrade or not. Neither of the squads can fight tanks as cost efficiently as Volks. I personally would prefer it on Obers or even a complete remove as the Panzerschreck is to a degree redundant with the Raketenwerfer in T0.

A remove or putting it on Obers would of course cause problems with OKWs early game anti vehicle capabilities. This could be easily be solved though by making the Raketenwerfer more useful (right now it's pretty sub-par, but gets incredibly powerful with vet) or by giving Volksgrenadiers a Panzerfaust. The Raketenwerfer has the possibilities to deal with pretty much all early to midgame vehicles damage and penetration wise, but it's low HP and lack of a gun shield mean it's also quite squishy. Without an infantry unit to work as a frontline for it, it can never deal the damages it could possibly do and often gets completely ignored. Giving Volksgrenadiers a Panzerfaust would give OKW a unit that can work as a frontline - no vehicle could ignore them anymore (as their damage to them is neglectable) and just focus on the Raketenwerfer, as it would get snared and heavily damaged.

Such changes would not only cause a bigger variety in units, but also increase overall synergy of the factions units. Volksgrenadiers would be reinforced in their main frontline / meat shield role and focused mostly on tanking damage and dealing with their active abilities. Sturmpios and Obers would be more focused on dealing the big damages, while the Raketenwerfer could finally work as an AT unit.

Indirectly, such a change would also buff the Jagdpanzer IV, as it would also greatly profit from an AT snare, but also the Puma. Considering that the Puma is already an incredibly strong unit, it would probably require some nerfs, but that's something that can be tested and should probably only be implemented in a subsequent patch. If the stats show that Volksgrenadier performance is too weak (right now it's gigantic due to the quick vetting and massive Panzerschreck impact), the base unit could be buffed slightly, but the vet bonuses decreased. They do not need a weapon upgrade at all if they have a role in the game, and Panzerfausts would easily give them one.

Literally none of what MilkaCow has stated sounded at all worth while or good for the OKW.

At least it doesn't sound good if I'm understanding what he's saying correctly.

Literally none of what MilkaCow has stated sounded at all worth while or good for the OKW.

At least it doesn't sound good if I'm understanding what he's saying correctly.

Well colour me surprised. I had no idea you'd not like Milka's suggestions, you know, you being impartial and all...

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+1

tldr version:

- Schrecks to cost efective on Cheap Volks with ultra vet.

- Put Schrecks on Sturms and maybe Obers, so there is an opportunity cost.

- Fill the gap by buffing Rakten-Pak and giving vehicle snare to Volks - something a lot complain to be missing

(Along with personal note that by buffing raketenpak and giving snares to volks even a removal wouldnt cipple OKW to be effective)

Outcome: No more Easy Schreckvolk/Obers combo for insane anti-everything blob in late midgame and beyond. Keep strength of Schrecks, but diversify gameplay. Make Raketen stronger(lower time untill shot fired) and improve overall faction synergies.

Literally none of what MilkaCow has stated sounded at all worth while or good for the OKW.

At least it doesn't sound good if I'm understanding what he's saying correctly.

Try again.

While you're at it, why not give ROFLSoldatten Jetpacks for 50 munis and Kubel armor plates for 25?

I've got no idea if you're refering to vet or how many to give them.


If vet: Vet 0/1
If number of G43 given: maybe 2?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkssturmgewehr

Seeing some of the other suggestions made by others like Millar cow are not bad ideas, but ops idea of 235mp volks with mp44 and mg34 to turn them in to Obers lite is an awful idea.

Remove Panzerschreck upgrade on Volksgrenadiers. It just doesn't work that well on such a unit, regardless if it's historically acceptable or not. Gameplay wise giving such a strong upgrade to such a cheap squad with a high model count with pretty much downside causes massive problems.

.

I find it working just perfectly if you ask me. despite what people are saying volks are not terminators at vet 5 . they are simply durable but have virtually no AI what so ever and no utility. thats why they use the shrek. if you wish to allocate the shrek thats fin,e but the volks need some major buffs if you do that as they become a pure AI squad. Every single volks need to do the damage of a gren. or require upgrades that will make spamming them a very attractive option. otherwise you are nerfing volks to the point they no longer can be used.

its a good idea. it would then be like in vCOH, panzerschreck on 4 men sturmpios (grenadiers with schrecks in vCOH), and the ability to buy MP40 on volks without the panzerschreck upgrade (like in vCOH) making them a great unit on near range (you dont have to buy it leaving them a solid far range assistance). and of course obers (vCOH knights cross holders) with MP cost reduction but with the need to buy the LMG (2LMG so that the damage is better splited). The challenge would be the early M20 or AA HT rush, exactly the same challenge like in vCOH greyhound, but with a raketen aim time buff and maybe a panzerfaust ability on the volks that would be perfectly balanced

I find it working just perfectly if you ask me.

He isn't.