Relic, an idea for Volksgrenadier improvement

I've had a quick discussion with Romeo and we've come to a few ideas that might be considered okay as far as treating Panzershrek blobs.

As it stands a lot of people are complaining about Volksgrenadier Panzershrek blobs and Obersoldaten support.


I think part of the problem may be included in a lack of munitions sinks for the OKW, aside from Grenades, MG Upgrades, and artillery strikes, there isn't much else to sink munitions into.


I think a good change to implement onto Volksgrenadiers specifically may be to include an automatic weapons combat package.

In history, Volksgrenadier was just a move to economize personnel into regiments of 6-line infantry instead of the standard 9-line infantry. This was already very real for a lot of divisions.

To compensate, volksgrenadiers were given a higher volume of automatic weapons, LMG's, SMG's, and of course the new "wonder weapon" the STG-44.

So the idea, would be to give the OKW Volksgrenadiers a automatic weapons combat package that includes 1x LMG-34/42, 1x STG-44, and 2x MP-40's. Completely removing the KAR-98k from their inventory, locking out panzershreks, and giving them coats for cold immunity.


Perhaps this combat package can also give them a couple grenade options, although I'm just slinging ideas.



This would allow Volksgrenadiers to be less reliant on Obersoldaten and Sturmpioneers, while also providing an excellent and viable munitions sink aside from more panzershreks.

lol no

^

As of right now obers are really good, but expensive. If you make volks the OKW anti infantry option with vet they will stomp on everything and you could just spam pumas and get a couple shreks for AT.

Furthermore Even if they could buy anti infantry upgrades, that doesn't mean that people wouldn't still do the same thing anyways, OR they would be using an even stronger strat to replace it and idk if we need something stronger than the present OKW elite infantry

I agree that OKW needs more munitions sinks, as well as standard munitions income. I think the bonuses on OKW tech structures (healing, repairs, gun upgrade) are good possibilities. Making obersoldaten pay for their MG34 upgrade would also go a long way. An alternate or replacement upgrade on volksgrenadiers also sounds good to me although I don't know what a good one might be.

Hopefully something that enables OKW to clear buildings somehow.

So you think that the way to stop the schrek spam and obersoldaten killing everthing is to give them even MORE options. What's stopping them from doing the same old thing. This makes no sense.

I've had a quick discussion with Romeo and we've come to a few ideas that might be considered okay as far as treating Panzershrek blobs.

As it stands a lot of people are complaining about Volksgrenadier Panzershrek blobs and Obersoldaten support.


I think part of the problem may be included in a lack of munitions sinks for the OKW, aside from Grenades, MG Upgrades, and artillery strikes, there isn't much else to sink munitions into.


I think a good change to implement onto Volksgrenadiers specifically may be to include an automatic weapons combat package.

In history, Volksgrenadier was just a move to economize personnel into regiments of 6-line infantry instead of the standard 9-line infantry. This was already very real for a lot of divisions.

To compensate, volksgrenadiers were given a higher volume of automatic weapons, LMG's, SMG's, and of course the new "wonder weapon" the STG-44.

So the idea, would be to give the OKW Volksgrenadiers a automatic weapons combat package that includes 1x LMG-34/42, 1x STG-44, and 2x MP-40's. Completely removing the KAR-98k from their inventory, locking out panzershreks, and giving them coats for cold immunity.


Perhaps this combat package can also give them a couple grenade options, although I'm just slinging ideas.



This would allow Volksgrenadiers to be less reliant on Obersoldaten and Sturmpioneers, while also providing an excellent and viable munitions sink aside from more panzershreks.

lol pls no, we dont need one of the best scaling units in the game to also be able to kill all infantry with automatic weapons. Hell, you could make it cost 200 munitions and it would still be bought because now that volks unit can kill any other unit in the game besides maybe double lmg upgraded paras

I agree that OKW needs more munitions sinks, as well as standard munitions income. I think the bonuses on OKW tech structures (healing, repairs, gun upgrade) are good possibilities. Making obersoldaten pay for their MG34 upgrade would also go a long way. An alternate or replacement upgrade on volksgrenadiers also sounds good to me although I don't know what a good one might be.

Hopefully something that enables OKW to clear buildings somehow.

I don't agree that OKW needs "munitions sinks" that implies you are just making things cost more b/c other factions have alot of things to spend munitions on so this faction should too

However I would say that the OKW teching system gives an extrordinary amount of amazing bonuses from these incredibly cheap buildings. After amassing 120 fuel you have enough resources to get all of your factions tech? Thats pretty ridiculously cheap. The bonuses costing munitions would be a well deserved nerf and i think it would also aleviate some of the OP flak HQ concerns(since it would not be instant Laser cannon on top)

I also think giving them full munitions at some point is completely necessary. Shreks purchases were the only thing that full munitions was OP on and right now its not feasible to use many commanders and abilities basically b/c people were getting too many panzershreks.

Making shreks more proportinally more expensive and giving OKW full munitions would be a fine change regardless of any other to make the faction less boring and more diverse

So you think that the way to stop the schrek spam and obersoldaten killing everthing is to give them even MORE options. What's stopping them from doing the same old thing. This makes no sense.

Is this not the same logic that is used when saying Soviet infantry should be buffed while leaving the Maxim the same?


Besides that, without the panzershrek, Volksgrenadiers are very very limp units. Given an infantry fighting package would allow them to be more potent while having to specialize in a very specific way. Locking out the anti-armor package for the infantry fighting package, or vice versa would be a far better improvement than outright nerfing the panzershrek.



Can't it even be considered without an explosive "no"? Surely you can all open your minds to some kind of new possibilities, Romeo surely can.

Well I guess I don't understand the difference between the term munitions sinks and what you're describing then.

Im just pointing out a different reason for the changes, but the changes are the same so it doesn't matter

Volks already scale absurdly well for their cost and your idea is to give them automatic weapon upgrades? I mean, have you ever actually looked at the crazy vet bonuses Volks get as it is? No one would ever bother with Obers again.

Volks already scale absurdly well for their cost and your idea is to give them automatic weapon upgrades? I mean, have you ever actually looked at the crazy vet bonuses Volks get as it is? No one would ever bother with Obers again.

I've seen them, the only reason they vet quickly and acquire those bonuses is due to the fact they have to consistently engage vehicles. Which in turn gives them an absurd amount of experience.


If they were to receive an anti-infantry package as a specialization, they would become very very vulnerable to vehicles, while remaining potent to infantry but also acquire vet more slowly!


Surely then by the time they reach Vet-3 or Vet-4, or even Vet-5. It will have been very well earned by survival and use.

Remove schrek from Volks and maybe add 2mp40s or one stg44., but nothing to the level which you are proposing

I've seen them, the only reason they vet quickly and acquire those bonuses is due to the fact they have to consistently engage vehicles. Which in turn gives them an absurd amount of experience.


If they were to receive an anti-infantry package as a specialization, they would become very very vulnerable to vehicles, while remaining potent to infantry but also acquire vet more slowly!


Surely then by the time they reach Vet-3 or Vet-4, or even Vet-5. It will have been very well earned by survival and use.

Even without schreks they'll still vet up faster than any other inf squad due to their cost and their vet bonuses are still superior to all other inf. If you add STG-44/LMG packages on top of their crazy accuracy and tankiness at vet 3+, there won't be a single other inf unit in the game that will be able to stand up to them.

If you genuinely want to deal with the schrek blob problem while giving OKW a muni sink (and I have my doubts), might I suggest that schreks should be removed in favour of an active AT grenade ability or something similar.

I'd certainly support moving the panzershreck upgrade to a less spammable/durable squad like sturmpioneers or obers or even both. But without the panzershreck volks are basically useless so they definitely need some kind of replacement upgrade or abilities. Again I'm not really sure what that replacement should be.

Even without schreks they'll still vet up faster than any other inf squad due to their cost and their vet bonuses are still superior to all other inf. If you add STG-44/LMG packages on top of their crazy accuracy and tankiness at vet 3+, there won't be a single other inf unit in the game that will be able to stand up to them.

If you genuinely want to deal with the schrek blob problem while giving OKW a muni sink (and I have my doubts), might I suggest that schreks should be removed in favour of an active AT grenade ability or something similar.

I find myself unwilling to accept any ideas that would entirely remove the panzershrek play for Volksgrenadiers. Sorry, but it just wont happen.

Also I think you misunderstood my suggestion.

I did not suggest an LMG+STG-44 combo. I suggested a combo of 2x MP-40's (Pioneer/Assault-Gren SMG) 1x STG-44, 1x LMG-34/42. This would give the Volksgrenadiers a variety of automatic weapons for short, mid, and long range. But not truly specializing in any of them, since all of their K-98k's would be gone. It would be a pure infantry combat package, leaving them completely vulnerable to vehicles, and the munitions that could have been spent on a panzershrek, instead by that combat package.


It's one or more less panzershreks on the field, and still maintaining utility for the Volksgrenadiers beyond K98k's.

I'd certainly support moving the panzershreck upgrade to a less spammable/durable squad like sturmpioneers or obers or even both. But without the panzershreck volks are basically useless so they definitely need some kind of replacement upgrade or abilities. Again I'm not really sure what that replacement should be.

G43s?

G43s?

These are already applied to the Panzer-Fusiliers, and to a lesser extent, the Jaeger Light Infantry.


It is possible to maintain some unique element while not encroaching on other infantry and their dynamics.

I find myself unwilling to accept any ideas that would remove the panzershrek play for Volksgrenadiers. Sorry, but it just wont happen.

Okay i guess i am done here folks!

I doubt that people will get the combat package since obers exist. Would be redundant