The imbalance between Allied and Axis Infantry Anti-tank

We are talking about giving shreck to sturmpio, not removing shreck unilateraly. Don't you understand that the issue lies within their Vet capability and cheap reinforce price, whatever you give them is going to make them super strong for a ridiculous price.

Yeah but there's always one sturmpio squad on the map, so it wouldn't do anything vs light vehicles and so on. It would be useless.

cons with ppsh [...] then volks with Shreks are not a problem

If shreks are going to be moved to the sturms, it would be better to give them 2 like pgrens. Also giving both of em the ability to put out their shreks when not needed will be great. Well give that only to pgrens maybe i dunno.

It's not nearly as ridiculous as the strongest infantry AT weapon on a cheap and durable 5 man squad, who at Vet 5 are the most durable infantry in the game. And also Vet 5 comes fast because they have a bloody AT weapon.

Changing SHrecks long rand accuracy is a better solution to the problem (if Relic thinks they're over performing of course) than completely re designing OKW faction structure. It's the same reason why Cons will never get a native weapon upgrade that's not coming from the commander.

Changing SHrecks long rand accuracy is a better solution to the problem (if Relic thinks they're over performing of course) than completely re designing OKW faction structure. It's the same reason why Cons will never get a native weapon upgrade that's not coming from the commander.

It would hard nerf Ostheer and I'm not sure it is something we do want.

Well my own idea isn't to touch volks + shreck, but Obers and falls. Add a munition cost to their weapons and OKW players will start to restraint themselves to spam volks + shreck.

Shrecks are to good at long range, you always get the blobs of shreck volksgrenadiers or panzergrenadiers running towards your tanks without fear, they know they can take them on.

Not to mention since the new patch movement en placement of entities within squads, they bunch up, hence even schrecks can wipe squads if 3 guys are left, happened to a guy i fought using a single shreck panzergrenadier squad.

Reduce shreks accuracy and do not let veterancy impact it. This is why you see homing shreks so much. Accuracy boost makes it always hit. Once they are out then Full vet is a forgone conclusion.

Reduce shreks accuracy and do not let veterancy impact it. This is why you see homing shreks so much. Accuracy boost makes it always hit. Once they are out then Full vet is a forgone conclusion.

Yes they need to alter the vet gain from schrecks. VOlks can vet so easily from schrecks. It is pretty common to see vetted volks running around.

The problem with nerfing Panzerschrecks is you just exacerbate the problem by ensuring that they're ineffective in small numbers, which further encourages people to amass them. The problem with making Veterancy not effect them is that this would mean any unit with a Panzerschreck upgrade will not be able to have accuracy bonuses with veterancy. You could take it further any say no infantry unit should get accuracy bonuses with veterancy, because it increases the performance of captured AT weapons.

The problem with nerfing Panzerschrecks is you just exacerbate the problem by ensuring that they're ineffective in small numbers, which further encourages people to amass them. The problem with making Veterancy not effect them is that this would mean any unit with a Panzerschreck upgrade will not be able to have accuracy bonuses with veterancy. You could take it further any say no infantry unit should get accuracy bonuses with veterancy, because it increases the performance of captured AT weapons.

I do not see a lot of people blobbing Zooks to overcome their uselessness. And When I see it, it never work as intended.

... Make it so hitting vehicles with handheld AT weapons provides ZERO XP? XP gained using handheld AT weapons ruins the vet system.

I do not see a lot of people blobbing Zooks to overcome their uselessness. And When I see it, it never work as intended.

That's different Bazookas aren't cost effective. If you want Panzerschrecks to be the same, then you're admitting that you don't care about balance, you only want the enemy to be easier to fight.

That's different Bazookas aren't cost effective. If you want Panzerschrecks to be the same, then you're admitting that you don't care about balance, you only want the enemy to be easier to fight.

Fine make them laser accurate still lower their Pen and Damage to 60. There you go Bazooka version 2. It would still be better though because USF armor is weaker. Will just suck against Soviets who cant even get a handheld AT weapon.

Whatever the change is it needs to happen. They are simply too effective when you consider what faction they are in and when compared to the terrible performance of Bazookas. They actually NERF the squad you put them in.

OKW has no good AT gun so its fine VOlks has sherks!

That's different Bazookas aren't cost effective. If you want Panzerschrecks to be the same, then you're admitting that you don't care about balance, you only want the enemy to be easier to fight.

Fine make them laser accurate still lower their Pen and Damage to 60. There you go Bazooka version 2.

You just proved my point, you want them to be shit-tier so you have an easier time fighting that faction.

You just proved my point, you want them to be shit-tier so you have an easier time fighting that faction.

No I am advocating "Asymmetrical Balance" as it stands the Bazookas arent a counter to anything but light vehicles. You cannot cost effectivly blob a P4 to death because it will mutilate your riflemen.

This is fine. Its the way it is. You cant just A move a blob at a tank. But they can offer supporting damage.

Even if they did nerf the Shrek down to bazooka levels or just slightly better then it couldnt counter armor in a blob like they currently enjoy today. And due to the lower level of all Armor that isnt Axis it would still perform better then a Bazooka can.

What are the alternatives? Its clearly a problem. You dont want its accuracy to go down, you dont want its DPS to go down, you dont want its penetration to go down, you dont want it to not be affected by Veterancy. Sounds like your happy with the Shrek the way it is. It is incredibly stupid that you need to rely on the RNG of a Scott or a Doctrine (Bulldozer) to fight on even terms against massed Shreks.

What is your idea? Buff the crap out of Bazookas to make them like Shreks and see the same Problem on the Allied side?

I'd rather Panzerschrecks get moved to Sturmpioneers rather than completely gutted.

I'd rather Panzerschrecks get moved to Sturmpioneers rather than completely gutted.

Me too. We might see Sturmpio blobs but i think that is a good tradeoff from having it on the cheapest main line infantry. Sturmpios are expensive and it would be a good trade in AI/AT power. OKW can then focus on building some vehicles or using the raketen (which could be buffed to compensate).

I wouldnt mind panzerschreck being somewhat cheaper since the idea of a 4 man, 320 mp unit with 40 reinforce cost holding a panzerschreck sounds much better than a 5 man, 235 mp unit with 20-some mp reinforcement cost holding a panzerschreck.
Yes, R43 could be improved as well.

Me too. We might see Sturmpio blobs but i think that is a good tradeoff from having it on the cheapest main line infantry. Sturmpios are expensive and it would be a good trade in AI/AT power. OKW can then focus on building some vehicles or using the raketen (which could be buffed to compensate).

As much as I hate blobbing, I'm willing to accept that possibility. Sturmpioneer blobs are not as cheap as Volksgrenadier blobs, so the enemy should have less infantry to deal with. Also agree with buffing the Raketen, damn thing's a joke.