Improving the 4v4 Allied playerbase

So I finally tried to play a few 4X4 multiplayer, mostly as US as I just prefer the look of them. Here are my impressions.

The most notable match against the Axis, we had 2 Soviet and 2 US players on my team. We were doing pretty well, even with a noob like me on the team. I'd say we were just about ahead in fact....

Right until I saw the King Tiger!

"GG"

This thing with a blob of Panzerschrek-firing infantry slowly advanced from one edge of the map to the other, destroying everything in it's path. I personally lost 2 shermans, 2 jacksons and a wolverine trying to kill this thing. Even flanking with the Shermans didn't work, they did no damage at all, and my poor Jacksons and wolverine seem to explode as soon anything so much as gives them a funny look.

Even my vastly more competant teammates fared little better.

The second match, a similar thing happened, and then the third, at which point I just quit as soon as I saw the first KT.

Even as a noob it's clear to me that US are horribly underpowered, with no ability to kill German heavy armour, and no unit that can soak up damage while your fragile as glass tank destroyers try to score some hits.

In my humble opinion the US is in dire need of a heavy unit. The US needs the Pershing.

P.S> I also played matches as Ostheer, lost those too.

http://www.coh2.org/replay/27616/big-battle

Very very occasionally a group of very good allied players will let me join them in a 4v4 and we roflstomp all the SEEG HEYL!!! 2SS DEATHKOMMANDO losers.

It almost makes the rest of the nightmares of being a CoH2 fan bearable for a few minutes.

The Glorious feeling you get for beating nubs with epic German names!

I just jumped into my first 4v4 and can report that the "build nothing but riflemen" strat does not work very effectively

i played countles of allies games as soviet. i lost 9 out of 10 games always. the problem? first of all: germans are easy mode. they have good anti tank and good anti inf. soviet? they have good anti inf with the shocks BUT ONLY THE SHOCKS, every other inf sucks. and they have really really bad anti tank. you either spam zis3 guns who are easy killed or spam su85 whop are also easy circled and killed. your only option is isu152 because t34/76 and /85 both die very fast and the is2 has much armor but sucks at anti tank. isu152 is your only option. but it also dies quickly because its also easy circled. so allies COMPLETELY rely on their commander call ins. germans get all their good stuff right off the bat. and we have to call it in. thats srsly very unbalanced and unfair. the other thing is, if there is ost+okw in 4v4, you have only a really small win chance. the ost will just build many tanks and anti tank and the okw will just spam good inf. so okw kills your inf (if you dont have shocks or too less shocks) and the ost kills your tanks.

oh and funny thing is: the germans wrote often in such games that we sucked. if i said that allies need VERY MUCH SKILL to win and are not easy the germans always said that allies are easy mode and op.

and yesterday night i wrote into this chat here if someone could give me tips for 4v4 russia. and you know wath? there was this ultra pro 1v1 player who told me that 4v4 requires NO MICRO, NO SKILL and is EASY MODE AS ALLIES.

yes of course

welcome to the internet, land of the keyboard warriors

I just jumped into my first 4v4 and can report that the "build nothing but riflemen" strat does not work very effectively

Even better is the person who spams only RE and fuel caches to "rush" tanks while letting the enemy have the fuel points.

Even better is the person who spams only RE and fuel caches to "rush" tanks while letting the enemy have the fuel points.

I yelled at my m8 who was building fuel caches even BEFORE the first engagement just so he can have Ez8s late game. I mean at least get Riflemen out, be aggressive early game and for God sake earn the CP for you to even unlock the damn thing. Ugh, so frustrating.

Great and helpful guide. Thank you. And congrats on reaching No.1

A post on your favourite build orders to combat the axis hordes would be also much appreciated.

To the OP point of less ranked Allies, it's painfully obvious when you see 80%+ of the people looking are Axis and 20%- are Allies. The hi ranked is obviously going to go to the side that's played more. Further, I think the 80:20 should glaringly show which side is easier/better to play with. People will gravitate to the "winning" side.

Oh, and I can only hope to stumble into some of you better players for team games. Look forward to that time.

I have been quite successful lately as US in 4vs4. I came from 2000 to around 400/300. Actually I'm mostly struggled when there is someone doing something very wrong in my team than losing because Axis players do it better or have late game advantages.

I'm an average player playing really preservative, not so much rusher, trying to hold territory and attack when I have a good opportunity. If you feel you're like me, check my BO below.

So let share some information.
BO:
Start RE
3 rifles
1 grenade
1 ambulance
1 Lt
1 cache
1 major
1 Scott
1 Jackson

This BO works pretty well in all 4vs4 maps.

You need to be aggressive at start. You need your mate next to you going where you go, because Axis players will do the same, there is no way to win your first engagement at 1vs2 because you or your mate next to you build a cache as 1st or second unit.

Do not send your RE alone to cap mid map, that's a stupid bet because same if you cap it first you cannot hold this territory with it.
Cap with your RE and make sure your 1st rifle and RE are together to engage and flank.

You have to be aggressive but not rushing, if your opponent set-up his MG and you cannot pass, wait for grenades, and flank with your 3 rifles squad + RE. Use and abuse of smoke, that the best tool you have early game, smoke MG or smoke bunker and go behind to cap.

Bring your ambulance close enough and soft retreat as much as you can. This mean, disengage faster if required to reinforce your squad closer.

If you are good with your unit preservation, you should be building at least 1 cache after your ambulance/lieutnant.

Bring your major close to your ambulance as retreat point.

Your first Scott is really important, do not lose it. in fact you should not be losing any vehicle at all. use it for smoke bunkers and MGs and attack with your rifles, Scott is an incredible indirect fire unit, keep it behind your rifle to rip blobs, use grenades when you can.

If you are good with your MP (and so your unit preservation), build an HMG, HMG + Scott do a very very good job. HMG suppress and scott decimate suppressed squads.

Your next unit is a jackson in any cases because P4s and Panthers are going to pop really soon, keep your jackson behing, and use it to keep them at distance.

Now is the moment of choice. It depends of what you have to fight, more blobs? go for a 2nd Scott. More Panthers or P4s, go for a second Jackson and next you go for your second scott or Jackson. It also depend of what your mate built. If he goes for mass AT, go for a Scott etc...

About the commanders. I like to go for Reco. It gives a reco sweep and a really good arty with IRPathfinders. Pop two for them, wait to have 300 munitions and take out any OKW building. If you don't plan to do it again, just sacrify one squad after that.

My BO doesn't includes Sherman. Why, because I believe they are too fragile vs blobs. Scott or Sherman are really RNG dependant vs blobs, sometime they hit, sometime not. So better to go for the cheapest option, it doesn't really require more attention since you leave it behind, you don't need to micro it like a sherman when you fight so you can concentrate on microing your rifles. Once Vet1, you have your smoke and it helps a lot to disengage.

Even better is the person who spams only RE and fuel caches to "rush" tanks while letting the enemy have the fuel points.

I had someone like this on Steppes justifying it as: "they'll get the fuel first anyway because kubel, so might as well save the fighting and get some fuel too". I just assumed he was a new player, but afterwards I checked and he was top10 on USF 4v4. Hmm, trying harder to keep an open mind...

I had someone like this on Steppes justifying it as: "they'll get the fuel first anyway because kubel, so might as well save the fighting and get some fuel too". I just assumed he was a new player, but afterwards I checked and he was top10 on USF 4v4. Hmm, trying harder to keep an open mind...

Did the early fuel help? That's the question. I could see avoiding the fuel and capping other parts of the map while the Axis is capping the fuel area.

I guess the thing that makes it work on Steppes is you get a lot of munitions for the blob to be able to roll everything later, and you just need that little bit of fuel for a supporting stuart or AA. Still seems pretty high risk though, especially when quite a few ppl just drop as soon as they see a cache

One question.

I feel like 4vs4 random teams aren't anymore match vs 4vs4 teams. Is it something you've observed as well or it is just I'm super lucky or being a beast than I roflstorm teams with random mates?

you forgot the best advice for all allies random players in 4v4:


DONT BUILD CACHES in the first 15 minutes of the match.

thats terrible timing, after 15 minutes you could be seeing Tigers. you need to atleast start thinking about a fuel cache around 5 minutes. Before 5 minutes is risky because you'll be giving up the fuel cache's value in fuel youd get from territory control. But once your main 4-5ish squads are out on the field shifting focus to teching can be smart.

it really depends on how the game is going- but dont just keep building infantry simply because youre waiting for fuel.. having more than 4-5 infantry squads is setting you up for defeat as one hard anti-infantry asset could then steamroll you once it comes out. 6 riflemen isnt really better than 4, theyre just a bigger liability.

Actually it's probably better to have the caches out and done with early (depending on the map) as a extra Volks here or there under 5 minutes is not going to make or break anything as ground will be constantly won and lost around that time.

The problem is when you build the cache early and get it destroyed early.

Actually it's probably better to have the caches out and done with early (depending on the map) as a extra Volks here or there under 5 minutes is not going to make or break anything as ground will be constantly won and lost around that time.

The problem is when you build the cache early and get it destroyed early.

Building fuel caches from the beginning as Ostheer is a suicide. Building fuel caches from the beginning as Allies is wasted early game aggression. Point: Don't build fuel caches within first 2 minutes!

In my experience early cache building hasn't been an obvious reason for defeat in 4v4s so I can only shrug.

In my experience early cache building hasn't been an obvious reason for defeat in 4v4s so I can only shrug.

Tiny details like this aren't obvious, but they still get you and your team killed.
Having one more CP grants more fuel AND ammo for free. Besides a single Volks more so early on can make the difference between you push them back, or they push you - and if the latter occurs, your fuel cache will be gone before it ever pays off.

Agree 100% with the OP, I play 4v4s for casual fun when I've burnt out attempting to be a tryhard in 1v1/2v2. Pretty much exclusively play USF and got into the top 100 in 4v4s barely even trying with only about 30 games. Figured at top 100 level I'd get better teammates but without fail there's 1-2 people on the team who are utterly useless. I personally think allies aren't even UP in 4v4's (so long as its not 4 okw on steppes), just that the team imbalance is often stacked against you.