Are kubelwagens OP

I just found this on Reddit, i guess a change of mood is not bad.



Praise it.

Spreading joy and happiness to anywhere near you!

Glad I could make something funny out of the mighty Kubelwagen.

Relics balance team consists of people that watch xhamster all day.

In team games Kubels can quickly lock off the fuel for Amer or Soviet player now. This gives OKW a huge fuel bonus which they can use to rush for either stukas or Pumas. I think this is a situation in which balance for 1v1 and 3v3+ will never be perfect.

In my experience against the Kubel, I think it'd be great if we just left the gun it as-is, but removed the health bonus it got a few patches ago. Also consider reducing the rear-armour to from 2 to 1.5. At Vet 3, it may get it's health and .5 rear armour back, since it deserves it for surviving that long.

Doing that would make the Kubelwagen more vulnerable to flank attacks, and highly vulnerable to AT Guns (one hit would kill it).

Doing that would make the Kubelwagen more vulnerable to flank attacks, and highly vulnerable to AT Guns (one hit would kill it).

The problem is Kubel has a tiny target size (for a vehicle). AT guns only have about a 30% chance of hitting it at long range. I don't think that it should get insta-sniped by an AT gun, but a small target size increase would help both AT guns and infantry anti-tank weapons to actually hit the thing.

The thing that really annoys me about kubel's is....why doesn't a ZiS one shot it? It's a tiny buggy vs a massive AT gun. If by some miracle you actually hit the thing, it zooms off and reps up and reappears somewhere else. Very annoying.

In my experience against the Kubel, I think it'd be great if we just left the gun it as-is, but removed the health bonus it got a few patches ago. Also consider reducing the rear-armour to from 2 to 1.5. At Vet 3, it may get it's health and .5 rear armour back, since it deserves it for surviving that long.

Doing that would make the Kubelwagen more vulnerable to flank attacks, and highly vulnerable to AT Guns (one hit would kill it).

I agree with this. It would increase the risk of fighting HMGs head-on and also make it appropriately vulnerable to the M3. An un-countered Kubel would remain as useful as it is now, ie still worth producing.

As I stated some time ago in the Kubelwagon thread I made some time ago, The Kubelwagon did need buffs to become more useful as it was just bad before. The issue is that the idea of a mobile MG on wheels at the start of the game is something that could cause problems. The Kubelwagon should be able to fire and function like that of the Soviet scout car or the American Dodge but without the ability to carry units. (Think Shimmwagon from Coh1) The surpression ability should be at Vet 1 and function like the Flak Halftrack in which a setup time is needed for surpression.

well it does technically have a setup time already, are you saying that it would not be able to fire or move as well, while it's setting up?

As I stated some time ago in the Kubelwagon thread I made some time ago, The Kubelwagon did need buffs to become more useful as it was just bad before. The issue is that the idea of a mobile MG on wheels at the start of the game is something that could cause problems. The Kubelwagon should be able to fire and function like that of the Soviet scout car or the American Dodge but without the ability to carry units. (Think Shimmwagon from Coh1) The surpression ability should be at Vet 1 and function like the Flak Halftrack in which a setup time is needed for surpression.

In other words, make it useless again. Good luck getting to Vet 1 with lower DPS than a Pioneer squad, btw.

In other words, make it useless again. Good luck getting to Vet 1 with lower DPS than a Pioneer squad, btw.

Pioneers have more DPS at close range than a Grenadier squad does....

The problem with the way balance is handled in this game in this game is that Relic adds units to the game without considering the role of the unit and effective counters. For example take a look at Company of Heroes, though while not perfect it had sort of a rock, paper, scissors way of balancing that worked out well. For example Machine guns stopped infantry, mortars/snipers took out machine guns, and bikes/jeeps took out mortars/snipers.

The way Company of Heroes 2 addresses balance is simply to just throw more units at it and eventually it will die. Normal Machine Guns are static by nature meaning that they cannot move while firing. They are prone to flanking, mortar fire and so on. The Kubelwagon does not have any of the downsides that a typical machine gun has to deal with it while retaining all of the positives with the only real weakness being from having an additional weakness to vehicles/AT weaponry which are not readily available early on in the game.

Now let us take a look at the Kubelwagons Vet 1 Ability "Detection". As you guys know already while that ability is active you can see units on your minimap. If you try to move while that Ability is active though the Kubelwagon moves slower and turns slower.

What I am proposing is the seperation of the surpression mechanic from the unit and combining it with an ability that would make the Kubelwagon move and turn as it does while in detection mode.

So that would give the player 2 options. Use the Kubelwagon as you would say a jeep or bike from COH1 or put it into surpression mode which would limit its mobility (like detection mode does) in order to provide surpressive fire.

Two Ways they could accomplish this.
1. Give it a Suprresive Mode Toggle Ability
2. Combine Surpression with Detection and make it available at Vet 0
-Vet 1 Would need to be changed, maybe more detection Range.
-Give it a Minor Cooldown (say ten seconds)

Doing these changes would put the Kubelwagon in a much better spot as it would be useful (which it was not before) but still give players a chance to flank it like a typical MG.

In the current state that the Kubelwagon is in, it is overperforming for its unit cost. We can at least all agree that some changes are needed.

why still no patch to fix this shit?

why still no patch to fix this shit?

because its not op

because its not op

Who needs skill when you have axis, OKW is the OPest, I see what you want Relic.

Am I the only one reading the chart and seeing dual-BAR'd riflemen as having worse DPS at almost all ranges versus vanilla riflemen?

Am I the only one reading the chart and seeing dual-BAR'd riflemen as having worse DPS at almost all ranges versus vanilla riflemen?

You're reading it wrong, lower numbers are better. Just look at the Shock Troop curve, at low range (where they beat Sturms) the curve is close to 0. At longer range it is closer to 1.

because its not op

September Challenge: make Jaigen realize that Truck push + Kubel into Puma/AA HT is OP, specially against USF.

I'm surprised also no one mentions the vet1 ability. It's not like OH have a similar ability with a limited duration and they have to pay munition for. It's a shame your partners can't see it, though.

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Buy it, use it, play it, fail it, rip it, ditch it, dump it.
Surf it, post it, whine it, heard it, check it, tune it, help it, code it, buff it, patch it, change it, send-upgrade it.
Test it, play it, charge it, point it, push it, shoot it, pin it, kill it, abuse it, profit, call it, praise it...
Kubelwagon...Kubelwagon...

You're reading it wrong, lower numbers are better. Just look at the Shock Troop curve, at low range (where they beat Sturms) the curve is close to 0. At longer range it is closer to 1.

Works for me.

In any event, the lines aren't that far apart--reinforces my idea that BARs are blech this patch--but then again, so is trying to fend off 3x dual Kubel starts in 3v3s/4v4s.

Works for me.

In any event, the lines aren't that far apart--reinforces my idea that BARs are blech this patch--but then again, so is trying to fend off 3x dual Kubel starts in 3v3s/4v4s.

Yes BARs are pretty meh.

Though Milkacow said Relic is considering buffing them.