What happened to Relic?

COH2 single campaign is focusing on Ruskie war crime instead of heroism on COH1(I don't care truth or not), that's kinda bull crap when the game named company of HEROES.

I for one liked that the coh2 campaign wasn't soviet style of this:

Show Spoiler

Which CoH1 was basically made of.

Coming from someone who retroactively started on COH2 then COH1: I find COH1 feels floaty no real wait for them. I find the tank parting completely shit tanks will considerately refused to reverse ect. There are many balance issues as well. If your playing a team game the exploitation is massive. From a faction design point The USA is outright weaker due to the vetency system furthermore as you cant build rifles from base teir unless your rushing something specific a t2 start isnt viable unlike soviets or okw and usa. The PE needs to wait to mid game for ist inf to be viable because it apparently got nurfed into the ground as thats when i get better weapons upgrades That being said i still love coh1 but i feel like people act when its perfect and its not (I would like a pe style tecing structure with the upgrade ect explored tho) and on the other hand coh2 problems are either minor in comparison unlike a faction being able to cut u in ur base with a stupid bike thats wreck blocks too or similar to coh1 with certain upgrades being unreliable like osther t4 vs usa t2 start

vCoh was an experiment and you can truly expect more than an experiment when its sequel comes out.

They had the design, they had the gameplay and they added weirdos stuff like deep snow and blizzard... which completely breaks the essence of the game. Adding it in the campaign is nice, not the multi-player modes. From now the two only good improvements I can see so far is the true sign and being able to pass over walls and edges with your squads.
I mean, what I like in COH2 is what remains from vcoh and the little they did to improve that experience, all the rest that comes from other design ideas seems just... not bad, just non-adapted to the game, like how they change the upkeep/popcap concept and how game after game I can see the limit of it.

Still I like that game, but still there is something wrong in it.

About vCOH and COH2 support comparison, it's difficult to do, 8 years ago, it wasn't possible to bring 50-100mo patchs on the net every months. And vCOH was a new concept, I can understand it takes time to develop en ensure changes will not breach the essence of the game. But 8 years later when so much has already been changed...

I think it's important to note that the original CoH came out in 2006. You think that relic would have been able to take the experience and improved technology over the years and make a very polished squeal.
But the optimization, pathfinding and bugs are pretty horrendous sometimes. Of course vCoH wasn't perfect, but you can cut it some slack for being the first of it's kind. I personally cannot help but feel that there are external factors at play on the team. I think Sega is really pressuring the team to make the most money that it can. WF was an awesome expansion (even with the bugs it brought) but the team should now solely focus on polishing the game not some new American campaign that will drain resources away from the tasks at hand.

CoH1 made other people that moved to other companies (mostly after CoH1 release) like Blizzard, the new team wanted something different and now CoH2 is what it is now

Yeah the development team has always been really bad. Late game vs early game design, Tiger Ace, and the entire soviet tech tree. It's a good thing Relic has such a great balance team or this game would have been dead a year ago.

They have a balance team?? Will they start work soon?



I think the low player base means CoH2 is only *technically* not dead. On life support I'd say

Calliope using his main gun anyone?

I hope and still belive Coh2 will be better, BUT Relic HAVE TO listen to the coummunity. Of course they shouldn't do all stuff what the community want, but at least the should know what we want and what issues we have.

Many things can be improved, reworked (popcap/upkeep system, infantry/vehicleys only button etc.)

Relic MUST cooperate with community. This is the key point to game to improve.

If we take for example Paradox Interactive... They have great contact with players on their forum. The community is enermous source of ideas, mind storming. And now Paradox games are better and better. They tought about every concept of game mechanic, what doesn't work in prequel and what would be do better.

In Coh2 in some areas there were steps forward, but in some there were steps backward.

And I hope some game mechanics still will be rethought and alternatively reworked.

Calliope using his main gun anyone?

That was pretty awesome while it lasted. Front line Calliopes acting like medium tanks then using their point blank barrage to decimate anything in front of them.

Remember Sherman force field smoke as well?

Not to mention the dreaded 5% bug.

To be fair. Just about every single person who worked on vcoh, left. They formed Smoking Gun studios or interactive whatever. Right after Vcoh came out. Hence why Opposing Fronts was a mess and Tales of Valor even worse. COH2 despite the god christ awful alpha, the game has turned out remarkably well. Their support has been an incredible improvement over the none existant support of vcoh. The patches are more frequent and there is better communication. Relic recently released the BEST entry in the series after vcoh being the Western Fronts Armies. It has breathed new life into the game for someone who is a series vet and didn't give a toss about the game anymore to be honest. My love for it is rekindled.

http://www.smokingguninc.com/about/

JOHN JOHNSON Director of vCoH!!!!
Drew Dunlop Lead Engineer for vCoH!!!

Bulgakov, you're being incredibly inflamatory and disrespectful [of Relic] in my opinion.

OK, let's not compare the support on CoH2 to CoH1. But then let's compare Relic to other game developers. Are they delivering the support you can expect with other games?

Why not? That's exactly what the OP is doing. Relic have patched COH2: Western Front Armies more than Blizzard have patched Diablo 3 Reaper of Souls, and in less time. That's incredible, and they deserve a lot of credit for that.

OP has a point, CoH1 had something which CoH2 still doesn't have. I haven't worked out what it is exactly but there was some magic in vcoh. The feel of the gameplay, the atmosphere, the strategy options... For its time it was practically flawless.

I hate this shit. Don't come in here with your high and mighty COH1 was best because reasons (which we can't argue against). It's quite honestly insulting you think this is at all helpful to post. Relic have crafted a superior game and "it doesn't feel right". Sure.

As someone said, the original dev team left Relic, leaving us with the people who thought Brits were a good idea. Brits were the antithesis of Vcoh and really spoiled the game. It's that development team that we still have today designing CoH2. They don't have the finesse of the original team.

Staff changes happen. Some original COH1 people will still be there too, like Quinn. They have learned a lot since COH1, and I think WFA has, as Rogers has stated, some of the best design to date, and has brought a lot of folks back to the game. They don't have the finesse of the original team - they have more. They have a different vision, and are executing it how they want.

I will agree that Josh is one of kind - his vision on Diablo 3:ROS has been ridiculous, and made the game fantastic. It's likely part of what made COH1 so good (at least you see the same direction). Hell, Diablo 3 has been through two "Relic" developers to date. Jay Wilson worked on Dawn of War 1. I think it is a fine comparison to any Relic product.

Now CoH2 does get more patches and some new features are great. And I'm hoping they can iron it out because it is potentially better than vcoh.

This is your opinion. I think it is already greater - it has 4 unique sides and far fewer issues (as mentioned Brits) than vCoH, with fairly decent balance and a handful of issues that need fixing.

BUT the OP's main point is good. There are a lot of bugs and game-breaking units and other very serious problems with the game. The Relic team reacts to these incredibly slowly.

The OP has the same attitude as you - COH1 is great because "reasons". How does that help, how is that useful feedback? This is such bullcrap. They fixed the healing crate stuff unbelievably fast. I remember putting up with Dark Crusade (same year as COH1) and Soulstorm bugs for MONTHS. Dawn of War 2 still has glaring issues.

I know arguing with you types (COH1 is so perfect omfg COH2 sucks) is completely pointless, but I don't think you realize how much of a dis-service your comments are to the current team.

Yeah, Relic has changed. I know that as much as anybody - seeing so many good developers and faces go, like TASK3R and Egon, and the countless others. They've also had tradegies, like with Brian Wood dying (which seriously affected the whole team). It's not the same company, they have a different publisher and things have changed. But they still make GREAT games, and since COH2's release I'd had a lot of faith restored. Look at them take care of the old Dawn of War games - its utterly fantastic. I can't think of a single other developer that has safe-guarded its legacy so well.

The attitude and word of mouth people like you have created about COH2 is one of the biggest issues. Even after massive improvements you maintain the game is "worse than the original". It's no wonder the player-base is so hesitant to try it out if these are the sorts of posts or ideals that go around. If the game is on "life support", that's because you want to believe the game should be more like COH1. Your the same type of person that made everyone hate Dawn of War 2.

This whole post has made me come-across as some sort of Relic defender. I'm not. I'll be frank, the release of COH2 was a tremendous downpoint for me. I really felt SEGA had crippled Relic and that the game couldn't be saved. The last year has taught me otherwise. I'm glad that my faith has been restored, and I stayed through the bumpy times. I'm still going to be critical of Relic because WHERE IS MY OBS MODE and WHY ARE YOU IN THE ESL WITH SO MANY BUGS. But I can't stand the lies people are spreading, or won't look at the numbers. (Editors note: I know that Obs mode is coming, its just far later than it should be).

They have a balance team?? Will they start work soon?



I think the low player base means CoH2 is only *technically* not dead. On life support I'd say

The players in the balance team invest their time, even though knowing they don't have to, into making a better game for everyone including you. I think a bit of respect would be in order here.

Relic is fine.

Relic 2014 > Relic 2006.

I didn't even see the jab at the balance team.

Do you have no shame Bulgakov? If you truly believe what your saying, I don't think there is an argument anybody can make to convince you otherwise.

I'd love to hear who deserves your number 1 spot on your winners podium. Blizzard? Bungie? Firaxis? Creative Assembly? Because from where I'm standing Relic is easily on the same footing, if not better with COH2, especially compared to say Rome 2 or Civ V/XCOM.

these people that bought CoH1 in some kind of shop, and has instruction to the game can see which people made CoH1 (before expansions) and compare them to current team

The players in the balance team invest their time, even though knowing they don't have to, into making a better game for everyone including you. I think a bit of respect would be in order here.

Dose relic even appreciate the effort of the community testers? On several occasions balance patches were released with some seriously glaring balance issues (most recent example Katyusha buff, soviet mine squad wipe before that)). Several testers pointed out that their input was never considered, or that the changes were never made available for them to test in the first place!

I think relic mainly has community testers to play as many games as possible so they can have lots of data to use with their internal tools. Using this data they check units performance and statics and then draw their own conclusion.

Dose relic even appreciate the effort of the community testers? On several occasions balance patches were released with some seriously glaring balance issues (most recent example Katyusha buff, soviet mine squad wipe before that)). Several testers pointed out that their input was never considered, or that the changes were never made available for them to test in the first place!

I think relic mainly has community testers to play as many games as possible so they can have lots of data to use with their internal tools. Using this data they check units performance and statics and then draw their own conclusion.

Closed beta guys will disagree, either way, that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

First of all, the Relic that designed vCoH is far from the Relic that designed CoH2. Most of the core vCoH team is at Smoking Gun.

Secondly, if you think vCoH had better support than CoH2, you're delusional. vCoH's support was flipping awful. Bugs lasted months, and balance patches were rare. The only reason MGs act like they do in buildings right now is because someone at Relic fucked it up years ago and nobody knew how to fix it, so they turned it into a "feature". There are even posts on GameReplays of the community manager at the time promising additions to the UI to let you choose which side of a building an MG initially sets up in when you put it in there. That was 4 or 5 years ago, and it's never been added.

Relic's business model for CoH2 requires that they continuously support it. They've done a far better job with CoH2 than they ever did with vCoH in that regard.

Closed beta guys will disagree, either way, that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

It would be nice if we could hear from them. After all, I dont think you would disagree that some of the balance patches were or had very counter productive elements.

It would be nice if we could hear from them. After all, I dont think you would disagree that some of the balance patches were or had very counter productive elements.

They all signed an NDA, it's not going to happen.