Isn't it odd the strongest tank in the game is available to all OKW doctrines?
I don't have a problem with the unit itself (it's the premier attack-move noobmobile, but whatever), but in team games if you don't beat the Axis in 20 minutes, every OKW player is going to be making a KT and no matter what the situation is, the game shifts to their favor. You MUST flank it, as even Jacksons have a hard time penning the front, and flanking just isn't an option if you're facing OKW that aren't stupid, as they'll have several shreck volks and a few rakatens backing it up.
How is this any different than having the old Elefant non-doctrinal at launch? I'm sure if the IS-2 was a baseline unit, people would be up in arms.
Why isn't the King Tiger doctrinal?
13 Aug 2014, 01:57 AM
#1
Posts: 692
13 Aug 2014, 02:17 AM
#2
Posts: 971
I suppose that's it because OKW can't spam medium tanks like other factions, so instead they receive a super non-doctrinal tank.
I don't have any objection, although I'd wish that Puma received smoke at vet 1 or 2. Currently it is very hard to kill one well microed.
I don't have any objection, although I'd wish that Puma received smoke at vet 1 or 2. Currently it is very hard to kill one well microed.
13 Aug 2014, 02:18 AM
#3
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently BannedCus if it was doctrinal. then there will be little point in choosing other commanders
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
13 Aug 2014, 02:19 AM
#4
Posts: 3293
that is faction design at work they have no medium tanks (that aren't doctrinal) and the heaviest tank they have from a doctrine is a command panther.
the philosophy of the KT should be compared with the panther battle group as opposed to the Elephant from alpha. you have to build all the tech buildings and you have to sacrifice not getting armor earlier to save up for the kt.
the philosophy of the KT should be compared with the panther battle group as opposed to the Elephant from alpha. you have to build all the tech buildings and you have to sacrifice not getting armor earlier to save up for the kt.
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13 Aug 2014, 02:24 AM
#5
Posts: 440
The KT is a game decider late game. In team games Axis just need to hold 1 VP, a fuel, some caches and last out until they can start pumping out KTs in addition to everything else they have.
Some of the things KTs get away with late game...even the vCoH KT couldn't do. With even minor support one KT can clear groups of Shermans/T-34s. 2 KTs with support are literally unstoppable.
What sucks for allies is that they can have total map dominance for 30-45 mins and in the last ten minutes have the game flipped upside down and never be able to get back into the game again.
Some of the things KTs get away with late game...even the vCoH KT couldn't do. With even minor support one KT can clear groups of Shermans/T-34s. 2 KTs with support are literally unstoppable.
What sucks for allies is that they can have total map dominance for 30-45 mins and in the last ten minutes have the game flipped upside down and never be able to get back into the game again.
13 Aug 2014, 02:28 AM
#6
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
2 KTs with support are literally unstoppable.
false
13 Aug 2014, 02:29 AM
#7
Posts: 971
The KT is a game decider late game. In team games Axis just need to hold 1 VP, a fuel, some caches and last out until they can start pumping out KTs in addition to everything else they have.
Some of the things KTs get away with late game...even the vCoH KT couldn't do. With even minor support one KT can clear groups of Shermans/T-34s. 2 KTs with support are literally unstoppable.
What sucks for allies is that they can have total map dominance for 30-45 mins and in the last ten minutes have the game flipped upside down and never be able to get back into the game again.
ISU-152 can do the same.
13 Aug 2014, 02:30 AM
#8
Posts: 440
ISU-152 can do the same.
That is a non-turreted doctrinal unit. Big difference.
13 Aug 2014, 02:33 AM
#9
Posts: 4928
I do feel that after you get a KT, your fuel should take an income hit to support it.
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13 Aug 2014, 02:37 AM
#10
Posts: 824
ISU-152 can do the same.
This^.
that is faction design at work they have no medium tanks (that aren't doctrinal) and the heaviest tank they have from a doctrine is a command panther.
I think you forgot the Jagdtiger, although it is strictly AT.
The King Tiger has a lot of armor and high damage, BUT it is slow as fuck and the turret rotation is the slowest in the game. The RoF isn't that great either and the range and LoS is pretty terrible. It is a tough nut to crack, but a very slow nut with poor sight and range.
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13 Aug 2014, 02:44 AM
#11
Posts: 1225
Isn't it odd the strongest tank in the game is available to all OKW doctrines?
I don't have a problem with the unit itself (it's the premier attack-move noobmobile, but whatever), but in team games if you don't beat the Axis in 20 minutes, every OKW player is going to be making a KT and no matter what the situation is, the game shifts to their favor. You MUST flank it, as even Jacksons have a hard time penning the front, and flanking just isn't an option if you're facing OKW that aren't stupid, as they'll have several shreck volks and a few rakatens backing it up.
How is this any different than having the old Elefant non-doctrinal at launch? I'm sure if the IS-2 was a baseline unit, people would be up in arms.
Seriously, the KT? Putin just called me, he told me to tell you to harden the fuck up.
Its slow as all hell, turret rotation is ridiculous, all trucks need to be alive in order to build it. In 1v1 or 2v2 teching for a KT is a major, major risk since you forego all substantial AT on the way, and again, if you lose a truck on the way it means no KT. It certainly is dangerous to infantry but the DPS per se is nothing to write home about. Its impact is greatly lessened by a single Jackson/SU-85 and the 34/85 or E-8 swarm eats it for breakfast. Give me an ISU any day.
13 Aug 2014, 02:56 AM
#12
Posts: 2561
I don't think the trucks actually have to be alive to build it. I've seen players get it while not currently having all buildings.
Seriously, the KT? Putin just called me, he told me to tell you to harden the fuck up.
13 Aug 2014, 03:01 AM
#13
Posts: 824
I don't think the trucks actually have to be alive to build it. I've seen players get it while not currently having all buildings.
You are correct, it is like the USF buildings, you just have to build the officer once for the units in the building to be avaliable. You only need your HQ alive to build the KT.
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13 Aug 2014, 03:03 AM
#14
Posts: 954
It's historical accuracy by relic's book, King Tiger both out produce the IS and ISU, same as the Sturm tiger and ostwind out produce the pershing tank,
Therefore, making IS and ISU doctrinal only, and never add a pershing to the game is perfectly logical.
Therefore, making IS and ISU doctrinal only, and never add a pershing to the game is perfectly logical.
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
13 Aug 2014, 03:36 AM
#15
Posts: 32
It's historical accuracy by relic's book, King Tiger both out produce the IS and ISU, same as the Sturm tiger and ostwind out produce the pershing tank,
Therefore, making IS and ISU doctrinal only, and never add a pershing to the game is perfectly logical.
Tiger II
Produced: 1943–1945
Number built: 492
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_II]
ISU 152
"Between December 1943 and May 1945, 1,885 ISU-152s were built."
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISU-152]
IS-2
Produced: 1943–45 (IS-2)
Number built: 3,854 (IS-2)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IS_tank_family]
As you can see both the ISU 152 and IS2 outproduced king tigers.
13 Aug 2014, 03:48 AM
#16
Posts: 954
Tiger II
Produced: 1943–1945
Number built: 492
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_II]
ISU 152
"Between December 1943 and May 1945, 1,885 ISU-152s were built."
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISU-152]
IS-2
Produced: 1943–45 (IS-2)
Number built: 3,854 (IS-2)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IS_tank_family]
As you can see both the ISU 152 and IS2 outproduced king tigers.
You need a big cup of sense of humor
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
13 Aug 2014, 03:49 AM
#17
Posts: 32
You need a big cup of sense of humor
Poe's law...
13 Aug 2014, 03:56 AM
#18
Posts: 1225
I don't think the trucks actually have to be alive to build it. I've seen players get it while not currently having all buildings.
At the moment you start building, all trucks need to be deployed. If you lose one while building, KT will still finish though.
13 Aug 2014, 04:01 AM
#19
Posts: 1026
The KTs are extremely annoying from the perspective of a double USF player, but this is primarily because the Jackson is the only unit in your arsenal that can reliably damage it. I would kill for a doctrine with a 3" AT gun (historically used in the western front) that was comparable to the Wehr Pak, for example. The 57mm AT gun is very effective at fighting Wehr T3 and light vehicles, but hopeless at killing heavies. I almost feel like APDS should be a vet 0 ability for them, even if they had to slightly raise the price to compensate.
13 Aug 2014, 04:45 AM
#20
Posts: 222
At the moment you start building, all trucks need to be deployed. If you lose one while building, KT will still finish though.
No, the only condition is that all the trucks must have been built at some point during the game. So even if you loose them all, you can still build the KT afterwards.
@OP Thanks for the laugh, claiming you don`t have anything against the unit itself and then complaining how OP it is for the entire post without giving any reasons why it should actually be doctrinal (besides the OP thing obviously).
BTW if look at the cost of the tech buildings plus KT and account for the crippled fuel income of OKW the total cost of getting a KT is 636 fuel. That gives you pretty big window of opportunity for crippling the OKW player and preparing yourself. Just saying.
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