Why isn't the King Tiger doctrinal?

It has actually a turret.

Really? ISU-152 has a turret? How do you enable that mode?

The turret on the KT is so slow to rotate its basically useless once stuff is behind it anyway.

Still a massive difference between getting the turret aligned with the enemy units and having to rotate the entire vehicle around.

I love the King Tiger. By far the best piece of armor in the game. It shouldn't be doctrinal because this game is all about super units now. More super units = super fun. Ammirite?

Sad but true, except for when the faction or doctrine you pick doesn't get any.

At least in command and conquer everyone got a superweapon. As I've stated before, I really think the whole superunit thing has no business in COH and makes it a worse game because of it. Hated it in COH1, wish they did away with it in COH2, but in fact just made it worse. SU players love the ISU152 - Axis players hate it. Axis players love KT/Jagd/etc - allies hate it. See a trend here?

While we're at it, why don't they just give US a Nuclear Doctrine? Might as well with the absurd shit in this game at this point.

I want a baneblade

Sad but true, except for when the faction or doctrine you pick doesn't get any.

At least in command and conquer everyone got a superweapon. As I've stated before, I really think the whole superunit thing has no business in COH and makes it a worse game because of it. Hated it in COH1, wish they did away with it in COH2, but in fact just made it worse. SU players love the ISU152 - Axis players hate it. Axis players love KT/Jagd/etc - allies hate it. See a trend here?

While we're at it, why don't they just give US a Nuclear Doctrine? Might as well with the absurd shit in this game at this point.

It's not a super unit, it's a break through unit. The idea is that if OKW manage to get the resources to get one the allies have a massive army and they need a damage sponge to push into the line and open it so the infantry can exploit it.

I have been on the side with and against this unit and it is no more a threat than any other heavy tank. Rely on good placement of AT units and an ability or two and you will either force it off or destroy it. When forced off the entire OKW army must retire because it has no support and they literally cannot lose it (Imagine losing 400 fuel in tanks in one go, you lose the game). It is seriously no scarier than a regular Tiger.

Beating it does not mean you don't lose tanks, you can lose potentially 4 or more tanks and still retain a lead while fighting it.

If you are talking about it at high levels of vet that's your own fault.

In team games I actually find the Jagdtiger far more intimidating.

If the KT comes out and you have little to no proper counters, you probably lost the game earlier already. I know that the only times I've had one used against me with success was when I got outplayed.

What's a "proper counter"? 2 AT guns, a captain and a Jackson is a typical AT force we might have on the field. Two jacksons as the game draws on longer. In some theoretical, sterile laboritory environment that is more than a match for a KT. But it's never just a KT.

We could have more, but if they're going an infantry/support weapon heavy strategy (and inf-heavy gameplay is very common in these strategies), we will be investing manpower and fuel in units to counter the LMG gren swarms (I don't call them blobs because they don't necessarily all move in a single blob, although often they do at least temporarily), the Sturm/Shrek blobs, Falschirm spam, and eventually Obersoldaten on the field. Sometimes they get double ISGs, sometimes they stay with more core infantry. There are a variety of threats to deal with, but the Pack Howitzer is still underperforming, and the T4 Scott, while one of the best arty units in the game (I love them to death), is 75 fuel and comes rather late in the tech tree. Ever since they "bug fixed" the US 50 cal it's been pretty hopelessly unsurvivable in the face of axis units.

We still win sometimes, but you can't act like stalling for heavies is some unviable strategy in 2v2s and higher. Suicide in a 1v1 probably. But not in team games. OKW gets everything they need to fight effectively without using much fuel on units, particularly if they've got Ostheer support.

@ThoseDeafMutes
I understand where you are coming from, but it is the same way as the OKW vs Soviets. You don't have a lot of good counters to early snipers/maxims and so you build AI and arty to fight them only have a early T34 come in and smash all your AI since you don't get enough to build decent AT. Or right when you start pushing back the Soviets since they haven't built tanks all game, ISU drives in and starts one-shot wiping all your stuff. In a 2v2 the soviets can each pick one of these strategies and make it a nightmare for Axis players.

It's not a super unit, it's a break through unit. The idea is that if OKW manage to get the resources to get one the allies have a massive army and they need a damage sponge to push into the line and open it so the infantry can exploit it.

I have been on the side with and against this unit and it is no more a threat than any other heavy tank. Rely on good placement of AT units and an ability or two and you will either force it off or destroy it. When forced off the entire OKW army must retire because it has no support and they literally cannot lose it (Imagine losing 400 fuel in tanks in one go, you lose the game). It is seriously no scarier than a regular Tiger.

Beating it does not mean you don't lose tanks, you can lose potentially 4 or more tanks and still retain a lead while fighting it.

If you are talking about it at high levels of vet that's your own fault.

In team games I actually find the Jagdtiger far more intimidating.

I understand what the "intent" of it is, but I disagree with your conclusion that it is no different than any other heavy. It is not a heavy - a tiger and IS2 are heavies - this and the Jagd are "super heavies." Heavies are counterable and killable within reason. Super heavies allow you to play mediocre all game and then pull something out that requires an inordinate amount of resources to counter. If you want to argue OKW needs it and that the Jagd is worse, which it probably is, it just solidifies how I feel about the concept of such units.

I just lament them from a design perspective and think the game is worse due to their existence. I digress...

Sure, make it's cp and fuel cost same as jagd. I want to see more tears from ones defending this. You will see a LOT more of them if they are doctrinal especially if the doctrine is half viable...

350 OKW fuel + 210 teching costs + inability to produce other vehicles while waiting for it. OKW cannot build multiple fuel caches to speed it up.

It's so expensive, teching for one will more often cause a loss for OKW.


You have to sacrifice a lot to get it. Sacrificing a doctrine choice too is overkill.

By way of balance,OKW has no medium tanks, no heavy AT guns. It is a long dark wait until KT. Try early medium tank spam while they are going for their KTs instead of waiting for your ISU-152s.

I think you're just sad that ISU spam is less effective now that the Axis have a decent non-doctrinal counter. Адаптируйся, не плач.

Uhm..Jagdtiger doesnt kill infantry/AT guns, so no, it doesnt win the game for you unlike the ISU.

Uhm..Jagdtiger doesnt kill infantry/AT guns, so no, it doesnt win the game for you unlike the ISU.

But it makes sure there will be no vehicle.

Do you know what Obers alone do when there is no vehicle around?

Yes, they will die to double snipers

Super heavies allow you to play mediocre all game and then pull something out that requires an inordinate amount of resources to counter.

This has been answered elsewhere in this discussion, but if you think sacrificing the opportunity to have any vehicle all game but retain field presence is playing at a mediocre level than I don't know what to tell you.

If you see an OKW player who might get the KT you need to make him pay to have it in his men's lives. Either you will bleed him of MP and win long before it arrives or you will leave him without an army to beat you. Don't forget as Soviets to place mines everywhere (or get 2 su85's, or get T34-85 with mark target, or an ISU152, or two IS-2's, guards + button and 1 T34-76, etc.), and as American to use your fast tanks to flank the KT. Even if the KT manages to turn to shoot them a Jackson from the front can now safely engage the KT and quickly wear it down.

KT is very powerful. I think it must be lower fuel price, but then it can't kill infantry, like elephant, OKW have really cool elite infantry and KT must be a AT thing.

KT is very powerful. I think it must be lower fuel price, but then it can't kill infantry, like elephant, OKW have really cool elite infantry and KT must be a AT thing.

What would be the point of that? They already have the Jagdtiger

Yes, they will die to double snipers

Precisely, Obers is the best counter for snipers.

Precisely, Obers is the best counter for snipers.

lol no sorry wrong answer.

lol no sorry wrong answer.

Nope he is correct you simply need to achieve critical mass with obers or send volks into the frontlines to soak snipers fire. The long range fire power of obers is tremendous and any sniper inside the 35 range will die near instantly. not to mention kiting is difficult against them as they can FOTM

Precisely, Obers is the best counter for snipers.

And also the other way around, 2 snipers will force retreat a Obers squad if they get their shot.
Who leaves his snipers alone anyways? lol

Love der ‎Königstiger, the only Panzer I got within the whole game

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  SturmTigerSage6

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  OKW Defensive play 1

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  OKW Defensive play 2

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