Easy Eight

The panzer 4 usually survives a direct engagement against a t34 with about 20 %. Taken into account that it costs 25 % more fuel I think the balance with these units is fine. The t34 has still the better ai capabilities.

20% ????

The p4 has better armor and better penetration, so the chance to win against a t34/76 is higher than 50%.

Additionally the T 34/76 has WORSE AI, becuase it has slightly more scatter and a slightly worse AoE profile than the p4, but the same average reload time and no pintle HMG + German hull and coxial hmgs deal almost 100% more dmg than soviet ones. Which is all okay from my point of view since soviets have bigger squads.

^Actually, P4 got a better reload then T34 by ~1 second.
Unless recent KV-1 change affected T34 as well.

yes kv1 and t34 use the same gun.

^Actually, P4 got a better reload then T34 by ~1 second.
Unless recent KV-1 change affected T34 as well.

once again their are more statistics then just reload. dps wise they are around the same and its possible for the p4 to lose against the t-34

Pz 4 turret rotation is not the best till ur vet 2.If a t-34 has to win thats how it usually wins...get in the first shot.With that turret rotation and RNG penetration sometimes they pull it off,overall p4 wins majority.

being a doctrinal call in MIGHT mean it should be more powerful than non doctrinal units. it does not mean it should be more cost effective. thats why relic is looking into call ins.

That appears to me to be a completely arbitrary limitation. Why is it that cost effectiveness is balance taboo?

i never suggested the easy eight should be weaker. it is simply too cost effective. as for US tanks being squishy, thats by design. same reason relic has repeatedly said theyre not releasing pershings. they are the exact opposite of okw

You may have not, but others in this thread certainly have.

Also, I am not arguing for a buff here and rest assured, I understand the concept behind the design of the US faction. The fact remains that the US gets access to one tank that can take more than 2 shots (not many more) and it is automatically perceived as an imbalance.

looks like youve figured out the big secret to soviet design. 9 out of 19 german doctrines dont even have a call in unit. only 2 (3 if you dont count the AT gun in urban defense) of the 19 soviet doctrines lack a call in unit. think thats a coincidence? soviets are MEANT to rely on call ins and that makes them very versatile.

Condescending comments aside, you are clearly aware that changes to the call-in system would disproportionately affect Soviets. Once again, why get into that when the "fix" for the "problem" could be a simple bump in price??

germans on the other hand have been forced to rely almost entirely on the tiger for a long time now. you get heavy t1 to heavy t2 to p4 and/or tiger. i wouldnt call that versatility.

TIL- Access to snipers, mortars, fighting infantry, and MGs from a single building and access to two of the most well-rounded tanks in the game from just base units is not "versatility"

A. supporting units has absolutely nothing to do with the call in issue.
B. even though this thread is about easy eight, this is an issue with all call ins. this was an issue before WFA was even released.

A. Supporting units have much to do with the claim that since the E8 is better than the P4 something is wrong. A claim you may not have made, but others certainly have.

B. This is a "perceived" issue that is in no way game-breaking.

once again their are more statistics then just reload. dps wise they are around the same and its possible for the p4 to lose against the t-34

dps wise the p4 is better than the Ez8 due to ~ 1 sec faster reload. If Rng is on your side and all shots of the p4 penetrate (~50% chance front armor, 100% rear armor) p4 will win.

Here is the root of the problem with call-in cost effectiveness:

Once you have the cps, you can get your 1st (and every following) easy8 for, if i remember right, 350mp/135f. Meanwhile, to get your 1st p4, you must spend 400mp/100f to tech, and build a 160mp/25f building, and then 350/125f for the p4.

So, the 1st P4 costs 910mp/250f! What would justify that kind of investment? What are we getting for that extra 560mp/115f? Does the p4 come out significantly earlier than 9cp? No, certainly not 560/115 worth earlier. Is the access to stugs, ostwinds, the flame upgrade to HT, worth 560mp/115f ? No. Is the p4's performance worth the extra 560mp/115f? Fuck No.

In fact, your 1st p4 costs nearly as much as 2 easy8s. So lets consider the price differences of 2 easy8s compared to 2 p4s:
2x easy8: 700mp/270f
2x p4: 1260mp/375f (down to 630/187 each)

This is exactly why most ostheer players dont bother teching to t3, just bank that 910mp/250f, and spend it on a tiger...which, by comparison, is much more worth the cost.


My suggested solution: make the cooldown on call-in tanks like 5-7minutes. That way, all the investment cost of teching/buildings gets some inherent value - the ability to build tanks as soon as you have the resources (instead of being limited by the cooldown).


EDIT: I included the cost of teching to t2 in the analysis. However, even if we remove that cost based on the assumption that we're teching to t2 no matter what happens later, the calculation changes slightly (subtract 200/45) but certainly does not change the conclusion - the benefit of teching as ostheer is not worth its cost even within the faction, and is glaring compared to callings like the single t34/85, kv1, easy8.

dps wise the p4 is better than the Ez8 due to ~ 1 sec faster reload. If Rng is on your side and all shots of the p4 penetrate (~50% chance front armor, 100% rear armor) p4 will win.

Lol ignoring armor even 1 t-34/76 can beat panther.

Here is the root of the problem with call-in cost effectiveness:

Once you have the cps, you can get your 1st (and every following) easy8 for, if i remember right, 350mp/135f. Meanwhile, to get your 1st p4, you must spend 400mp/100f to tech, and build a 160mp/25f building, and then 350/125f for the p4.

So, the 1st P4 costs 910mp/250f! What would justify that kind of investment? What are we getting for that extra 560mp/115f? Does the p4 come out significantly earlier than 9cp? No, certainly not 560/115 worth earlier. Is the access to stugs, ostwinds, the flame upgrade to HT, worth 560mp/115f ? No. Is the p4's performance worth the extra 560mp/115f? Fuck No.

In fact, your 1st p4 costs nearly as much as 2 easy8s. So lets consider the price differences of 2 easy8s compared to 2 p4s:
2x easy8: 700mp/270f
2x p4: 1260mp/375f (down to 630/187 each)

This is exactly why most ostheer players dont bother teching to t3, just bank that 910mp/250f, and spend it on a tiger...which, by comparison, is much more worth the cost.


My suggested solution: make the cooldown on call-in tanks like 5-7minutes. That way, all the investment cost of teching/buildings gets some inherent value - the ability to build tanks as soon as you have the resources (instead of being limited by the cooldown).

5-7 minutes mean nothing to that cost difference.

Well in 3vs3 or 4vs4 its still a German tank total dominance...
Easy 8 may be good in 1vs1 or 2vs2 but it do not rulez it more than that.

This morning we lost a 4vs4 vs the Axis, we had all the map on Steppes but one pocket between the island and the center fuel (but the fuel was us). They had all their bases with gun near the center supported by their little howitzers and grenadier with shreks. We arty them but not matter what they where able to get out 4 stugs + 2 panthers + 2 tigers by the time we got some tanks ourselves... Add some stuka blast+ straff and we were dead meat.

They were better than us for sure.

I just want to know the tricks to crush those campers as its the main strategy we encounter when playing vs Axis. (AKA they camp one victory point they push on another together.)

Plz tell us how to.
Thanks

The thing is, the T-34/85 usually gets marked target bonus which makes it the best medium tank hunter.

True but those doctrine have pretty weak anti-inf compared to E8 doctrine that have great tanks + non-doctrine inf. With soviet there is a tradeoff if you want the best medium tank hunter.

A good solution would be to increase pop cap tied with the tank crew to prevent players from getting more pop cap than normal game mechanics.


Veteran E8 Tank crew - listen here noob

20% ????

The p4 has better armor and better penetration, so the chance to win against a t34/76 is higher than 50%.

I was referring to the health pool the p4 has left after an engagement. Not the chance to win. A usual engagement the p4 always wins unless the RN Gods hold a grudge against you.

Well in 3vs3 or 4vs4 its still a German tank total dominance...
Easy 8 may be good in 1vs1 or 2vs2 but it do not rulez it more than that.

This morning we lost a 4vs4 vs the Axis, we had all the map on Steppes but one pocket between the island and the center fuel (but the fuel was us). They had all their bases with gun near the center supported by their little howitzers and grenadier with shreks. We arty them but not matter what they where able to get out 4 stugs + 2 panthers + 2 tigers by the time we got some tanks ourselves... Add some stuka blast+ straff and we were dead meat.

They were better than us for sure.

I just want to know the tricks to crush those campers as its the main strategy we encounter when playing vs Axis. (AKA they camp one victory point they push on another together.)

Plz tell us how to.
Thanks

2xisu commander(would recommend 1 of each type)
1xwindustry
1xis2 commander(would recommend armored assault and not tech past wichever you choose t1 or t2, would recomend that this player goes t1 and uses his fuel for m3's and can micor snipes while building fuel)
3x teir 2
1x teir 1
2x teir 3
1x tier 4(then maybe if needed windustry goes t4)

3x player maxim/zis(3x maxims then 1 zis then 2x maxim 1 zis) 1xplayer m3's flamers->shocks/gaurds/snipers->2 players t34 build fast 3x t34 each and role together(very important) 1x player teir 4 for at least 2x kat then su ->isu, is2 or t34/85, meanwhile windustry goes t4 for su if they spam tigers, make sure windustry to use ram lots late game and finish with isu and su.

if you are against random teams chances are they will quit after you role them with 6 t34 fairly early. esp okw. make sure to build at least 3 fuel caches by mid game.

The t34 has still the better ai capabilities.

I disagree with that. Since last buff, P4 does as well as T34 against infantry, retaining better AT damage and pen and better veterancy.

And P4 hasn't to deal with the better axis ATguns and schrecks.

Currently P4 is in a much better place than T34 as a medium tank.

I disagree with that. Since last buff, P4 does as well as T34 against infantry, retaining better AT damage and pen and better veterancy.

Actually P4 does better job at AI having less scatter and much more powerful MGs, including pintle one.

Actually P4 does better job at AI having less scatter and much more powerful MGs, including pintle one.

You are right, the p4 has might more constant damage, but the lethality of it is not as high as the t34.

I never witnessed a p4 wiping a squad in a shot. A t34 can do this and often does it since the german squads are smaller, thus have less hp and unit entites tend to crowd on a spot.

But please this is a thread about the easy8 not the t34, please don't derail, further discussions in another thread or via pm.

The Panzer IV and T-34/76 both have 120 Pen at close range. At max range it's 100 / 80, minor advantage to the Panzer IV.

The Panzer IV and T-34/76 both have 120 Pen at close range. At max range it's 100 / 80, minor advantage to the Panzer IV.

Except for some reason the P4 has more armor than the T34, which is retarded since it's a paper box tank

Soon: KT appearing significantly before IS2, Tiger, ISU, etc. MVGame

That wont even happen. Players will still get ISUs/IS2s at 20-22 mins.

Skipping tech allows them to be able to get 2 ISUs by 25 mins... Tieing to tech is a start to balancing these units out.