I dont feel that the patch significantly changed ostheer early game, but otherwise i totally agree with you (and am similarly ranked as ostheer bouncing from 500-1000).
What it boils down to is that grens are a t1 infantry that is outclassed by t0 infantry of both allied factions, so not only will you always be behind due to time to build t1, mp cost, and lack of capping while building t1, but also the infantry you get is unquestionably weaker. Theoretically, the versatility offered by the t1 building should out weigh these setbacks, but a vast vast majority of the time, it doesnt.
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Ostheer received several minor buffs for its T4 and units like Pgrens/Osttruppen none of which address its fundamental problems at all. One of these problems is that US utterly dominates Ostheer in the early/midgame because of general infantry superiority and early vehicles.
Ostheer also received a de facto major nerf to its mainstay infantry unit, and that alone actually weakens it considerably relative to the other factions.
this. |
i think the problem with kubels is the way suppression works. a suppressed squad cant do much damage to a normal mg squad because suppression lowers accuracy by 75%. it also raises cooldown and reload times, but thats much less significant. the lower accuracy alone cuts the dps to only 1/4.
the problem is, kubels are vehicles with a target size. this pretty much negates the entire accuracy penalty, and squads will still hit a kubel almost 100% of the time. having 4 armor helps this, but doesnt change the fact that a suppressed squad and an unsupressed squad deal almost the same amount of damage to the kubel.
this. |
Here is the root of the problem with call-in cost effectiveness:
Once you have the cps, you can get your 1st (and every following) easy8 for, if i remember right, 350mp/135f. Meanwhile, to get your 1st p4, you must spend 400mp/100f to tech, and build a 160mp/25f building, and then 350/125f for the p4.
So, the 1st P4 costs 910mp/250f! What would justify that kind of investment? What are we getting for that extra 560mp/115f? Does the p4 come out significantly earlier than 9cp? No, certainly not 560/115 worth earlier. Is the access to stugs, ostwinds, the flame upgrade to HT, worth 560mp/115f ? No. Is the p4's performance worth the extra 560mp/115f? Fuck No.
In fact, your 1st p4 costs nearly as much as 2 easy8s. So lets consider the price differences of 2 easy8s compared to 2 p4s:
2x easy8: 700mp/270f
2x p4: 1260mp/375f (down to 630/187 each)
This is exactly why most ostheer players dont bother teching to t3, just bank that 910mp/250f, and spend it on a tiger...which, by comparison, is much more worth the cost.
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My suggested solution: make the cooldown on call-in tanks like 7 minutes. That way, all the investment cost of teching/buildings gets some inherent value - the ability to build tanks as soon as you have the resources (instead of being limited by the cooldown).
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EDIT: I included the cost of teching to t2 in the analysis. However, even if we remove that cost based on the assumption that we're teching to t2 no matter what happens later, the calculation changes slightly (subtract 200/45) but certainly does not change the conclusion - the benefit of teching as ostheer is not worth its cost even within the faction, and is glaring compared to callings like the single t34/85, kv1, easy8. |
Here is the root of the problem with call-in cost effectiveness:
Once you have the cps, you can get your 1st (and every following) easy8 for, if i remember right, 350mp/135f. Meanwhile, to get your 1st p4, you must spend 400mp/100f to tech, and build a 160mp/25f building, and then 350/125f for the p4.
So, the 1st P4 costs 910mp/250f! What would justify that kind of investment? What are we getting for that extra 560mp/115f? Does the p4 come out significantly earlier than 9cp? No, certainly not 560/115 worth earlier. Is the access to stugs, ostwinds, the flame upgrade to HT, worth 560mp/115f ? No. Is the p4's performance worth the extra 560mp/115f? Fuck No.
In fact, your 1st p4 costs nearly as much as 2 easy8s. So lets consider the price differences of 2 easy8s compared to 2 p4s:
2x easy8: 700mp/270f
2x p4: 1260mp/375f (down to 630/187 each)
This is exactly why most ostheer players dont bother teching to t3, just bank that 910mp/250f, and spend it on a tiger...which, by comparison, is much more worth the cost.
My suggested solution: make the cooldown on call-in tanks like 5-7minutes. That way, all the investment cost of teching/buildings gets some inherent value - the ability to build tanks as soon as you have the resources (instead of being limited by the cooldown).
EDIT: I included the cost of teching to t2 in the analysis. However, even if we remove that cost based on the assumption that we're teching to t2 no matter what happens later, the calculation changes slightly (subtract 200/45) but certainly does not change the conclusion - the benefit of teching as ostheer is not worth its cost even within the faction, and is glaring compared to callings like the single t34/85, kv1, easy8. |
What i've ran into few games in a row is a very conservative soviet early game, and then 4+ guard squads w/ quad-upgraded HT. Cant see any way to deal w/ that blob. I can have early game dominance until the guard blob just walks me off the map and then becomes unapproachable...
They rip apart the flak HT, the puma you can keep at distance but it doesnt do much. 1mg is inadequate - it gets taken down too quick even when some/most of the squads are suppressed...I imagine 2 MGs and a puma/raketen to get the HT after suppressing all those guards can work, but that would require a marvel of positioning to get all the guards suppressed. Often the guard blob has a maxim mixed in, which even if you manage to flank just re positions so cant get at it w/ infantry. If I go stuka to deal with it, i'll have nothing but volks/puma for a LONG time against the forthcoming t34s.
Ideas? |
CieZ, would love to hear how your analysis would change since last patch especially re 2nd truck choices. great video btw. |
can someone plz post the Small Arms Weapon Profiles; i cant view them from official forums |
Thread: Snipers17 Mar 2014, 23:31 PM
More and more I'm thinking Jaeger Infantry is the commander to have in your roster to counter snipers. Ambush Camouflage has its issues but with grens you can faust M3's and pounce on snipers from cover.
funny how you think ambush camo actually, like, works... |
screenshots of your favorite MG placements! go go! |