Maxim Spam

I would probably claim that OKW is to powerful early on for anything but Maxim spam

okw early game too powerful? thats pretty funny

just about the only soviet unit that might struggle against okw is conscripts. cons do quite well against volks, but are obviously weak against sturmpios. both t1 and t2 can be extremely effective against okw. literally any unit in either tier are viable choices depending on what youre fighting. then you also have shocks and guards.

Is funny how the unit that throw balance to the drain in your examples is always the Maxim, but the enemy infantry killing you are USF rifles.

Please, don't mix factions because even if maxim is overpowered and has a great sinergy with USF units, anything else that the soviet army has is terrible against OKW. Nerf Maxim and you are making OKW unbeatable for a soviet player.

Before talking about how to nerf maxim we should talk about how to make the faction useful without resorting to cheesy strategies like maxim spam or m3+flamers. Then and only then we could nerf maxim.

Are you being serious or what? That post was a sarcasm...

I played a 2v2 last night as OKW with a Wehr ally vs 2 Soviets, who built 7 maxims between them at the start. Did I win or lose (taking into consideration how OP maxims are meant to be and how OKW cannot counter them)?

Maxim is overperforming and needs either price increase or nerf. there is no defending that pos. blah blah vet 3 mg. WHO THE FUCK CAN GET A VET3 MG? I know, lets take the power from the vet on the mg and spread it out so that it can suppress non vetted. Maxim no get better with vet boo hoo... ITS BECAUSE ITS OP AS FUCK RIGHT OUT OF THE FACTORY. Maxim only good thing against OKW boo hoo whine whine. SHOCKS????? Kiting cons? FLAME PENALS? SNIPERS? M3 FLAMERS? jesus chirst you guys must be the worst fucking players if you are defending the Maxim.

Maxim is overperforming and needs either price increase or nerf. there is no defending that pos. blah blah vet 3 mg. WHO THE FUCK CAN GET A VET3 MG? I know, lets take the power from the vet on the mg and spread it out so that it can suppress non vetted. Maxim no get better with vet boo hoo... ITS BECAUSE ITS OP AS FUCK RIGHT OUT OF THE FACTORY. Maxim only good thing against OKW boo hoo whine whine. SHOCKS????? Kiting cons? FLAME PENALS? SNIPERS? M3 FLAMERS? jesus chirst you guys must be the worst fucking players if you are defending the Maxim.

Try to play as soviets in other gamemode besides 3vs3/4vs4 and then post again your impressions.

WHO THE FUCK CAN GET A VET3 MG?

Everyone with elite troops doctrine.

In 3rd minute of the game.

Effectively stopping all infantry in the region its deployed as well as light armor if you have a pair of working ears.

Try to play as soviets in other gamemode besides 3vs3/4vs4 and then post again your impressions.

likewise. try playing as axis and you might find they can use more than just maxims.

Everyone with elite troops doctrine.

In 3rd minute of the game.

Effectively stopping all infantry in the region its deployed as well as light armor if you have a pair of working ears.

ok you win that one. I have used elite like 4 times, so i forget about that. personally think that doc was crap even when it was op as fuck.

okw early game too powerful? thats pretty funny

just about the only soviet unit that might struggle against okw is conscripts. cons do quite well against volks, but are obviously weak against sturmpios. both t1 and t2 can be extremely effective against okw. literally any unit in either tier are viable choices depending on what youre fighting. then you also have shocks and guards.

Yeah, right. That statement sounds stupid to me too now that you disregarded everything else I said

'I played some 2v2 as well, Yes Maxim spam supported by US is potent. But so is OKW supported by Wehrmacht

I (and other people as far as I can see) spam maxims into shocks (or Snipers if you have reliable teamate) because any other opening with Soviets vs OKW/OKW or OKW/Wehr would be very hard to pull off.

I would probably claim that OKW is to powerful early on for anything but Maxim spam, rather than Maxim being too effective. At risk of causing a wrath on myself '


Please don't twist other peoples words

You yourself agreed with me that cons/eng struggle early on and Maxim and Sniper are T1 and T2 units, aren't they?
No one said anything about Shocks or Guards as they are not 'early on' units

Thank you

the maxim is over performing for cost and has no weaknesses compared to the other mg's . do not say small arch because that's the sign of severely bad micro. And with severely i mean both hands amputated level of micro.

I believe it needs a range nerf, this also fixes that the maxims can simply charge an mg42 and win. Its hilarious however that some people say they need maxims to counter OKW infantry. as far as i know you dont need maxim to counter to counter volks or sturmpioneers and maxim spam actually will fail vs obersoldaten.

Also the Luchs is at the wrong place and need to be added to the kamfgruppen truck

Agree

For either the Ostheer or OKW, there are a variety of options available for beating Maxims. Whether or not the unit is overpowered or you lose the micro in the engagement is subject, of course, but I feel it's worth noting that Grenadier rifle grenades are extremely potent against them, as are basically any other grenade in the game. The Ostheer also have access to smoke from various sources- if Axis players actually learned how to use them, especially in team games, I doubt we'd see nearly as much whining about Maxim spam. For any team, throwing one grenade to kill the gunner and then closing in with basically any other infantry gets the job done on the MG. If there are multiple firing in roughly the same arc, well, maybe it's time to flank to a different part of the map.
As an aside, I've noticed Axis players are very fond of spamming MG's themselves, which is hard to beat if you've done nothing but blob infantry. Honestly, a lot of the time it comes down to how well you micro the engagement, which most people would probably argue means the units are probably balanced. I dunno. Considering you can get a flak truck fairly quickly as OKW, and start pumping Obersoldaten and the Luchs, you have a fairly potent anti-MG spam force of your own. I really don't see the problem everyone else seems to be having.

I think it's just that most players consider several maxims + several cons as maxim spam.

One legitimate criticism of Maxims is that they can often beat MG42s head on, due to it's higher durability and fast setup time for suppressing. It's suppression against single models are very similar. Even if Mg42 gets first shots off, often it will be more suppressed.

A WW1 machine gun beats one of the best/most iconic WWII machine guns on a tripod...

EDIT:

People are missing the point when they say "maxim spam isnt that good". The comparison above is just too illogical and wrong to even consider it for "the sake of gameplay". Part of the problem are the unit AI (takes ages to recrew, buggy behaviour etc) and dps (which is lower at long range than maxim). The bad AI for the unit is amplified due to the fact it has 4 men, have 25% received accuracy and the axis mg's unit type (worse than the wheely weapons and the US HMG).

IMO the maxim should have 5 less range than mg42. The mg42 is a far better MG (with better sights) and is on a tripod, compared to the wheely thing... The MG42 should also retreat without depacking the gun (skip that animation).

I think it's just that most players consider several maxims + several cons as maxim spam.

One legitimate criticism of Maxims is that they can often beat MG42s head on, due to it's higher durability and fast setup time for suppressing. It's suppression against single models are very similar. Even if Mg42 gets first shots off, often it will be more suppressed.

A WW1 machine gun vs one of the best WWII machine guns on a tripod...

WW1 MG wins hands down.

Srsly though, an ancient MG beating modern MG?

Much rather see MG42 get a buff but a price raise.

Both maxim and MG42 are the same cost as a basic infantry squad and work as well as they should for their cost.

Flanking small numbers of maxims is easy, indirect pummelling large numbers is easy, popping a pair of rifle nades to wipe combat rough maxims is easy, etc. etc. etc.

Maxims are percieved as a problem for some because of their low level of entry in terms of skill. Using maxims to beat up poop players is easy in the same way that using MG42 to lock down maps is easy against similarly bad players.

The counters are efficient and reliable but require some level of skill at the game above and beyond what using said maxim demands.

Sadly, there's no patch in the world which can fix poor play.

Just another hyperbole post from a maximspammer.
Maximspam is the easiest,cheesiest and most cost-effective win solution in 2 vs 2 and above.Ur pseudo arguments abt 'skill' are no use because we play the game and see it being done every single game if not sniperspam.
As for those talking abt soviet have no proper infantry..patently false.Conscripts are absolutely competitive to grens early one.Problems only arise after lmg upgrade.
Shocks can terrorize any inf with proper use of smoke.
Its only in the late game blobbing dept that they fall behind due to lack of lmgs,and guards PTRS slots..early and mid game..soviet infantry remains excellent.
Flanking..flanking...noob in team games 3-4 maxims plus other players supporting there is no falnking.If the area has 3 buildings..forget..mg 42 is useless while they will just stick maxims into them and ur indirect fire will take AGES to kill 6 men.Make maxim have same setup in building as mg 42 as arc is removed there.

So yeah like it or not maximspam needs to nerfed into the ground..not the unit itself as such,but the spam.Thats why i said increasing buildtime heavily would help.Then lategame as u complain u can't control OKW blobs..u will still have unnerfed maxim to do it..but u won't be able to mass spam maxims early on.Problem solved.

Undoubtedly Maxims are an effective MG (whether they're OP or not is still under discussion). The problem with nerfing them is what else do the Soviets have to compete with Sturmpios... LMGgrens etc?

I'd say very little.

Undoubtedly Maxims are an effective MG (whether they're OP or not is still under discussion). The problem with nerfing them is what else do the Soviets have to compete with Sturmpios... LMGgrens etc?

I'd say very little.

Snipers,cars,shocks.And nerfing them doesn't mean make the unit obsolete..just end the spam.Just like there is no mg 42 spam..tehre woudl be no maximspam.Use it as a support assault unit all u like.

Undoubtedly Maxims are an effective MG (whether they're OP or not is still under discussion). The problem with nerfing them is what else do the Soviets have to compete with Sturmpios... LMGgrens etc?

I'd say very little.

The problem with the maxim is their early game durability. simply put reduce the 6 man to 4 man and the spam will stop overnight as maxims then no longer have the durability to operate alone and grenades finally have an impact on them. it still makes them excellent support weapons and the emphasis is on support. they are meant to support other soviet units and not operate alone.