Poor MG42 vs Rich MaxPin!

What's so hard in flanking Maxim's tiny arc of fire?
I understand you struggle against this unit but it's not because this unit is OP or MG42 under performs.
L2P time.

Haven't you learned by now?
If it can't be a-moved by grens or shrecked pgrens, its batshit OP and needs nurfnurfnurf.

There are many ways to kill maxims so i don't care about them. They have different role compared to mg42. Mg42 is a defensive unit, maxim is fit for attack with its fast deployment time which gives the oportunity for a very very micro intensive tactic: the infamous A-move, wich is just for pros.

The difference between these two is that for mg42 proper manning more micro is needed that in maxim's case.

And oh, one of the ways to dispose of an mg is flanking. Well, german infantry is not that good at it, they don't have ooraah. Exception make the AGs, but that's another storry. That is why a captured mg42 is such a lethal weapon.

Haven't you learned by now?
If it can't be a-moved by grens or shrecked pgrens, its batshit OP and needs nurfnurfnurf.

And still you dont fucking get it. the problem is not the maxim. its the mg42 that is a problem.
and still you continually derail the argument. All in all the mg42 is in most cases a liability. people simply ram their maxims into a mg42 or they oorah a mg42 and displaces it. and that is on top of all the other neat toys the soviets have for displacing a mg42.

The lack of suppressive power of the mg42 should be obvious to all except a few fanboys.

MG42s suppression is not a problem. It is easily suited as a defensive weapon but it should be used offensively. Soviets need x2 the number of Maxims to MG42s to duplicate the effectiveness of an MG42 in the rear of an attack force.

I prefer the MG42 in all cases every time. The Maxim may be able to go in unsupported in certain cases (until its Rnade to death) but the MG42 is VERY efficient at blob control.

I call this balanced.

What's so hard in flanking Maxim's tiny arc of fire?
I understand you struggle against this unit but it's not because this unit is OP or MG42 under performs.
L2P time.

Learn to fucking read, I didn't say it's hard but annoying. The ease of A-move maxim and the requirement of micro-intensive flanking this asshole maxim blob making the game not fun.

L2R time.

Back in COH1 anyone who spam 30.cal to me I would just laugh.

And still you dont fucking get it. the problem is not the maxim. its the mg42 that is a problem.
and still you continually derail the argument. All in all the mg42 is in most cases a liability. people simply ram their maxims into a mg42 or they oorah a mg42 and displaces it. and that is on top of all the other neat toys the soviets have for displacing a mg42.

The lack of suppressive power of the mg42 should be obvious to all except a few fanboys.

Except it doesn't lack anything.

If you spot for it, nothing will come even close, oorah or not. If you don't, your fault for leaving MG alone.

The moment you stop thinking MG42 is self sufficient unit like it was at release will be the moment you realize how to properly use it.

Until then, suck it up.
There is nothing wrong with either HMG and if there is, the problem lies between chair and the keyboard.

The difference between these two is that for mg42 proper manning more micro is needed that in maxim's case.

I would say I disagree here, Mg42 with its large arc and all, so long as you position in a good place with no obvious flanking route you can leave alone. I find that the difference in pinning is split seconds so long as the MG42 does not have to rotate to target across the entire arc. Once both guns reach vet they both pin very well.

Maxim however can easily be flanked if left alone the cone is so narrow, you can even rnade the gunner and run through the cone whilst its re manning.

I would say the whole argument about fast re positioning being OP but requiring less micro is flawed i.e.

Op because the soviet player can micro the gun to suppress lots of units quicker than an MG42

+

Maxim needs less micro...

=

???

Could some Soviet and German players arrange a test-game together where they show the MG42 and Maxim doing the things they claim? I personally feel that the MG42 is not performing and the Maxim is slightly overperforming and making the game static BUT I might be wrong and just need to L2P. SO we need a test to feed this discussion with more facts.

They could test:

Does MG42/Maxim suppress on first burst? How many times (out of 5) does it suppress? How often does it half-burst resulting in no suppression?

MG42/Maxim suppress multiple squads stood next to each other (not overlapping) a la Coh1?

Can units really through outer-cone of MG42/Maxim?

Can conscripts OO-RAH through the MG42 cone if they run just inside the outer edge?

What is quicker - MG42 rotate rate or Maxim unpack-aim-repack time?





If each scenario is performed 3-5 times, we will have some indicators that will help the discussion. Perhaps we could have 2 German-biased tesers, 2 soviet-biased testers and 2 non-biased testers?

If noone volounteers, I'll do it myself but I'll need a partner please!



(By the way: Who'd say that the amount of narrow paths on maps means the extra cone on the MG42 is superfluous and the Maxim's narrow cone is wide enough to cover most approaches? Maybe the maps are causing the problems rather than the units themselves...?)

I love stolen maxim's, is a fast and easy unit, you only need do Move + A...

And the retry, is need for speed...

The only bad is the arc, but ok, have more advantages...

Whell i start this thread but now i assume that a use my MG42 different, they are not good for Move + A, like the maxim... Sometimes MG42 is to slow to start shooting, the problem is when you front a good rush enemy, multiple molotov's is the fear of mg42... I never more put my MG42 alone... They are support unit but also need support, right? They dont doo miracles like the max...

Learn to fucking read, I didn't say it's hard but annoying. The ease of A-move maxim and the requirement of micro-intensive flanking this asshole maxim blob making the game not fun.

L2R time.

Back in COH1 anyone who spam 30.cal to me I would just laugh.

So you want to change a unit because is anoying?
Not that I was expecting any reasoning from you.

So you want to change a unit because is anoying?
Not that I was expecting any reasoning from you.

I think annoying units are usually annoying because they over/underperform. Think of any unit that has ever annoyed you. Did it annoy you because it overperformed or for another reason?

A unit that annoys a large number of players is very likely in need of fixing.



One the other hand it's a fact lower-skilled players are easily annoyed by the more complex units in CoH. But with the Maxim I don't think it's the case. I find it annoying too (I'm not a high-level player). It could be annoying because I'm not good enough or it could be because:

They're aren't very vulnerable to snipers (6-man teams)
Faster set-up time, faster rotate rate, higher damage than MG42
Narrow arc is unexploitable on narrow choke-point maps (this is more a map issue than a maxim issue)

I would say I disagree here, Mg42 with its large arc and all, so long as you position in a good place with no obvious flanking route you can leave alone. I find that the difference in pinning is split seconds so long as the MG42 does not have to rotate to target across the entire arc. Once both guns reach vet they both pin very well.

Maxim however can easily be flanked if left alone the cone is so narrow, you can even rnade the gunner and run through the cone whilst its re manning.

I would say the whole argument about fast re positioning being OP but requiring less micro is flawed i.e.

Op because the soviet player can micro the gun to suppress lots of units quicker than an MG42

+

Maxim needs less micro...

=

???

+1

mg42 has longer set up time so you have to be more conservative. i dont get how that translate into 'harder to micro'...

I love capturing maxims too because the setup time is lifesaving and really helps you use it in both an offensive or defensive capacity. It's not game breaking but I do sort of miss just how effective at blob control the MG42 was in the first game.

Maybe some old hands know better, but I think the vCOH MG42 performed better against blobs because of the way suppression worked...It had a much larger area of effect, so you couldn't easily run a blob at an MG42 no matter how many units you have. Units far away from the unit targeted but still in the arc might escape suppression but it was still a far larger area than in COH2.

Over and over in COH2 I see blobs run at MG42 with only one or two units getting suppressed. The suppression area obviously doesn't work the same - units right next to the targeted unit may not get suppressed.

Now I have no problem with a vastly superior force of units taking out an unsupported MG42 - even head on - my issue is with the suppression. In vCOH 4 blobbed rifles might still get the MG42 with just rifle fire before being pinned, and the same thing should happen in COH2. But they should all be getting suppressed. And the pinning should probably happen quicker as well.

+1

mg42 has longer set up time so you have to be more conservative. i dont get how that translate into 'harder to micro'...

Quite simple. A good player will still try to use its MG42 both offensively and defensively. Living the Mg42 sleeping in a corner or in a building it's a L2P indicator. Try to use it offensively with your infantry. I guarantee your fingers will hurt. . Maxim on the other hand, can be easily used both defensively (there is no real difference while fighting from a building, compared to Mg42, except its crew), and offensively with a simple A-move due to its fast deployement time and absence of "owhwaaa" at the german side. Speaking of it, It's quite amusing to see soviet maxim catched off-guard when you try to flank/attack it with AGs. They are no used to deal with fast running infantry lol.

Learn to fucking read, I didn't say it's hard but annoying. The ease of A-move maxim and the requirement of micro-intensive flanking this asshole maxim blob making the game not fun.

L2R time.

Back in COH1 anyone who spam 30.cal to me I would just laugh.

Don't try and reason with the CoH2 fanboys Porygon, they have a blind love for the game and they will not hear that CoH2 is actually a boring, rubbish, unbalanced game.

Quite simple. A good player will still try to use its MG42 both offensively and defensively. Living the Mg42 sleeping in a corner or in a building it's a L2P indicator. Try to use it offensively with your infantry. I guarantee your fingers will hurt. . Maxim on the other hand, can be easily used both defensively (there is no real difference while fighting from a building, compared to Mg42, except its crew), and offensively with a simple A-move due to its fast deployement time and absence of "owhwaaa" at the german side. Speaking of it, It's quite amusing to see soviet maxim catched off-guard when you try to flank/attack it with AGs. They are no used to deal with fast running infantry lol.

Their is a difference between mirco and tactical. the maxim is slightly more micro intensive but a moving is valid strat. With the mg42 you need to plan ahead. you need to scout , you need to in account where the flanking points are and cover them, you need to adequately support the mg42 while moving and most important factor of all: you need to know what the soviet army composition looks like before you buy the mg42.

For the maxim this is not the case its far more durable and flexible then the mg42 and with vet 1 it has just incredible staying power and anti flanking capability. right now both sides want each others mg. but while the maxim is a solid buy regardless what map or German army composition. The mg42 is on most maps and against most soviet army's a liability and i have seen people losing matches because they buy the mg42.

Their is a difference between mirco and tactical. the maxim is slightly more micro intensive but a moving is valid strat. With the mg42 you need to plan ahead. you need to scout , you need to in account where the flanking points are and cover them, you need to adequately support the mg42 while moving and most important factor of all: you need to know what the soviet army composition looks like before you buy the mg42.

For the maxim this is not the case its far more durable and flexible then the mg42 and with vet 1 it has just incredible staying power and anti flanking capability. right now both sides want each others mg. but while the maxim is a solid buy regardless what map or German army composition. The mg42 is on most maps and against most soviet army's a liability and i have seen people losing matches because they buy the mg42.

well... saw some top players' replays in which Mg42 wasn't even build and others in which it was build after having 4-5 gren squads on the field, not before. If I am to build one, I would surely take this approach.

Maybe some old hands know better, but I think the vCOH MG42 performed better against blobs because of the way suppression worked...It had a much larger area of effect, so you couldn't easily run a blob at an MG42 no matter how many units you have. Units far away from the unit targeted but still in the arc might escape suppression but it was still a far larger area than in COH2.

Over and over in COH2 I see blobs run at MG42 with only one or two units getting suppressed. The suppression area obviously doesn't work the same - units right next to the targeted unit may not get suppressed.

Now I have no problem with a vastly superior force of units taking out an unsupported MG42 - even head on - my issue is with the suppression. In vCOH 4 blobbed rifles might still get the MG42 with just rifle fire before being pinned, and the same thing should happen in COH2. But they should all be getting suppressed. And the pinning should probably happen quicker as well.

+1!



And to the member who said "A-move with Maxim MG" is a valid strat" - Please say who validated the use of a defensive suppressing weapon as a stand-alone offensive weapon.

There is supposed to be a trade-off. Magic suppresion powers are given but versatility should be removed. Suppression is a very powerful tool, it shouldn't be so fast and simple to spin an MG around.

Maybe some old hands know better, but I think the vCOH MG42 performed better against blobs because of the way suppression worked...It had a much larger area of effect, so you couldn't easily run a blob at an MG42 no matter how many units you have. Units far away from the unit targeted but still in the arc might escape suppression but it was still a far larger area than in COH2.

Over and over in COH2 I see blobs run at MG42 with only one or two units getting suppressed. The suppression area obviously doesn't work the same - units right next to the targeted unit may not get suppressed.

Now I have no problem with a vastly superior force of units taking out an unsupported MG42 - even head on - my issue is with the suppression. In vCOH 4 blobbed rifles might still get the MG42 with just rifle fire before being pinned, and the same thing should happen in COH2. But they should all be getting suppressed. And the pinning should probably happen quicker as well.

No no no, suppresing fire should not happen quicker.
You do not understand the major difference between supression in vcoh and in COH 2.

In vcoh, suppresion had an effect on damage, however for example a riflemen squad with balls if up close could still kill of an MG42 if it got suppresed at very close range.

IN coh 2, suppresed units basically deal ZERO and i mean basically completely ZERO damage. Which means that in coh 2, you rely on abilities to kill of an MG 42. In vcoh, suppresed units could still do decent damage.