@everyone crying about axis early game being difficult ... Do you gentlemen not realize that soviets are supposed to have an advantage early because their late game is shit compared to that of the Germans? If soviets go 50/50 early game they lose. Just like Americans did in vcoh. To make it clear: SOVIETS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A STRONGER EARLY GAME THIS IS PART OF THE BALANCE. If you want to take that away than the axis must lose late game superiority.
So I ask, are you ready to give up tigers and panthers? If you said no you best start learning how to deal with con spam, shocks, guards, and whatever else you find op in the early game because its "hard to deal with"
The end
PPSH x3 Aftermath Update
22 Feb 2014, 22:57 PM
#81
Posts: 134
23 Feb 2014, 03:41 AM
#82
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
@everyone crying about axis early game being difficult ... Do you gentlemen not realize that soviets are supposed to have an advantage early because their late game is shit compared to that of the Germans? If soviets go 50/50 early game they lose. Just like Americans did in vcoh. To make it clear: SOVIETS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A STRONGER EARLY GAME THIS IS PART OF THE BALANCE. If you want to take that away than the axis must lose late game superiority.
So I ask, are you ready to give up tigers and panthers? If you said no you best start learning how to deal with con spam, shocks, guards, and whatever else you find op in the early game because its "hard to deal with"
The end
Not entirely true. Late game Ost is better than Soviet, but it is not so clear cut. It's not like getting to minute 40 suddenly gives Ost the win. However, you are generally correct. Soviets have a stronger opening game to help them try to force victory before Ost powerful late game. This makes the game exciting by having acceleration at the light vehicle to tank stage, and then having both players clawing it out at the end...in theory.
I find the PPSH upgrade very, very good right now and a no brainier if you have it. But I am starting to think it is not OP. I need to play more to be sure. It may still need a price raise. I still think 3xPPSH's helps make scripts feel beefier, especially considering it is a doctrinal ability.
23 Feb 2014, 07:45 AM
#83
Posts: 879
Having played more, it seems to me the PPSh does help cons scale a bit better.
But they're a little too good against Panzergrens, which leads to my main problem with the game right now: Ostheer squad wipes.
Obviously if you have PPSHes doing more damage to expensive units like Panzergrens, then they are more vulnerable to all the crazy AOE in this game. I swear I haven't had a game since the patch where I was able to keep a Panzergren alive all game. If it's not the mortars, it's the mines, or flame crits.
It's becoming really too frustrating to play - I can play Soviets and keep 4 cons alive all game, but Ostheer? No freaking way. Just too much one-shotting.
If they can't fix the AOE, they need to redo the upkeep system to be more like vCOHs - Wehrmacht had lower upkeep than the US did, which meant slowly the rifle spam advantage turned into a US disdvantage late game (without supply yard upgrades). This would let Ostheer players lose a unit or two to the one-shot one-squad effects that are all over the game and still compete.
But they're a little too good against Panzergrens, which leads to my main problem with the game right now: Ostheer squad wipes.
Obviously if you have PPSHes doing more damage to expensive units like Panzergrens, then they are more vulnerable to all the crazy AOE in this game. I swear I haven't had a game since the patch where I was able to keep a Panzergren alive all game. If it's not the mortars, it's the mines, or flame crits.
It's becoming really too frustrating to play - I can play Soviets and keep 4 cons alive all game, but Ostheer? No freaking way. Just too much one-shotting.
If they can't fix the AOE, they need to redo the upkeep system to be more like vCOHs - Wehrmacht had lower upkeep than the US did, which meant slowly the rifle spam advantage turned into a US disdvantage late game (without supply yard upgrades). This would let Ostheer players lose a unit or two to the one-shot one-squad effects that are all over the game and still compete.
23 Feb 2014, 09:14 AM
#84
Posts: 1130
Having played more, it seems to me the PPSh does help cons scale a bit better.
But they're a little too good against Panzergrens, which leads to my main problem with the game right now: Ostheer squad wipes.
Obviously if you have PPSHes doing more damage to expensive units like Panzergrens, then they are more vulnerable to all the crazy AOE in this game. I swear I haven't had a game since the patch where I was able to keep a Panzergren alive all game. If it's not the mortars, it's the mines, or flame crits.
It's becoming really too frustrating to play - I can play Soviets and keep 4 cons alive all game, but Ostheer? No freaking way. Just too much one-shotting.
If they can't fix the AOE, they need to redo the upkeep system to be more like vCOHs - Wehrmacht had lower upkeep than the US did, which meant slowly the rifle spam advantage turned into a US disdvantage late game (without supply yard upgrades). This would let Ostheer players lose a unit or two to the one-shot one-squad effects that are all over the game and still compete.
The PPSH upgrade doesn't automatically allow scripts to win from PG's. you need 2 scripts to make this work and even then it only works if pg is attacking not the other way around. the high mid range damage of the pg's in cover or pg's combined with grens with g43's allows a German player to overcome PPSH spam quite easily.
Also squad wipes with ppsh ages are is rare as the damage output of a ppsh drops considerably after 10 meters. in fact the best squad wipers are still PG's with their very high mid range damage.
horrida flamma bella
23 Feb 2014, 09:16 AM
#85
2 Posts: 101
This is a doctrine ability, If Soviets choose any doctrine with this ability they don't have access to IS2,ISU-152 or KV-8. It's only one extra gun than before and conscripts have low armour.
I can't believe some think this is op.
I can't believe some think this is op.
23 Feb 2014, 14:39 PM
#86
Posts: 879
The PPSH upgrade doesn't automatically allow scripts to win from PG's. you need 2 scripts to make this work and even then it only works if pg is attacking not the other way around. the high mid range damage of the pg's in cover or pg's combined with grens with g43's allows a German player to overcome PPSH spam quite easily.
Also squad wipes with ppsh ages are is rare as the damage output of a ppsh drops considerably after 10 meters. in fact the best squad wipers are still PG's with their very high mid range damage.
Could you kindly re-read the entire message? I know I'm making a subtle point here, you might not be able to keep up. Also, a vet 2 PPSH will now beat a no-vet Pgren.
23 Feb 2014, 16:45 PM
#87
Posts: 1003
Could you kindly re-read the entire message? I know I'm making a subtle point here, you might not be able to keep up. Also, a vet 2 PPSH will now beat a no-vet Pgren.
Vet 2 Pgren beat Shock troops. StG44 (MP44) have double dps versus PPSH on close. I dont understand hystery about 3xPPSH.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
23 Feb 2014, 16:50 PM
#88
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Could you kindly re-read the entire message? I know I'm making a subtle point here, you might not be able to keep up. Also, a vet 2 PPSH will now beat a no-vet Pgren.
Not my experience.
Vet2 conscripts still have way less DPS then vet0 pgrens.
Unless you talk about 2 squads of them.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
23 Feb 2014, 17:54 PM
#89
7 Posts: 1664
Could you kindly re-read the entire message? I know I'm making a subtle point here, you might not be able to keep up. Also, a vet 2 PPSH will now beat a no-vet Pgren.
Seriously Dude? BE NICE. It's not that hard.
23 Feb 2014, 23:28 PM
#90
Posts: 184
Vet 2 ppsh Scripts will beat 0 vet PG. Most scripts will be vet 2 by the time PG's come out, making this unit fairly redundant now. Add a sniper into the mix and PG's are just cannon fodder.
76561198005515393
23 Feb 2014, 23:38 PM
#91
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Vet 2 ppsh Scripts will beat 0 vet PG. Most scripts will be vet 2 by the time PG's come out, making this unit fairly redundant now. Add a sniper into the mix and PG's are just cannon fodder.
vet2 ppsh scripts have less DPS then vet0 PGs and same survivability.
Math says you are wrong.
Practice also says you are wrong.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
23 Feb 2014, 23:50 PM
#92
1 
Posts: 1006
I think the problem is the new commander that we all got for free the Advanced Warfare one, might be wrong though.
23 Feb 2014, 23:52 PM
#93
Posts: 208
vet2 ppsh scripts have less DPS then vet0 PGs and same survivability.
Math says you are wrong.
Practice also says you are wrong.
Don't forget that if a PGren dies the squad loses 25% of it's firepower but it will take 4 cons dying to severely reduce the Con squads firepower.
I do find currently it is whoever "gets the drop" on the other squad will usually win the engagement (grenades not withstanding)
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us"
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961759507
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961759507
23 Feb 2014, 23:59 PM
#94
Posts: 208
If they can't fix the AOE, they need to redo the upkeep system to be more like vCOHs - Wehrmacht had lower upkeep than the US did, which meant slowly the rifle spam advantage turned into a US disdvantage late game (without supply yard upgrades). This would let Ostheer players lose a unit or two to the one-shot one-squad effects that are all over the game and still compete.
Yeh and why don't they change the resource system too whilst they're at it... Don't forget Wehr had bought vet so this made up considerably for squad wipes.
Personally I think they are a little too cost effective at the moment but this is massively dependant upon the map. Maps with shot blockers and cut offs spring to mind as it's just too easy to get pushed off the map as Ostheer
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us"
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961759507
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961759507
24 Feb 2014, 02:00 AM
#95
Posts: 2779
vet2 ppsh scripts have less DPS then vet0 PGs and same survivability.
Math says you are wrong.
Practice also says you are wrong.
One does not simply 1v1 a PG with a cons.
24 Feb 2014, 03:47 AM
#96
Posts: 4928
One does not simply 1v1 a PG with a cons.
With PPSh you do, I've done it a few times. Find light cover, throw molotov, win engagement.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
24 Feb 2014, 04:10 AM
#97
Posts: 2779
With PPSh you do, I've done it a few times. Find light cover, throw molotov, win engagement.
Still have risk, and if the Ostheer player half awake, you cannot wipe the PG out.
I would choose to engage the PG with 2 cons and 1 more at his retreat route and wipe them out.
24 Feb 2014, 06:09 AM
#98
Posts: 1003
Still have risk, and if the Ostheer player half awake, you cannot wipe the PG out.
I would choose to engage the PG with 2 cons and 1 more at his retreat route and wipe them out.
3*240MP versus 360MP ? 2xPG wipe your 2*cons with your 1 more.
1 PPSH give only 6 DPS more and make consripts usable in middle and late game. Grens for this dont need doctrine.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
24 Feb 2014, 07:30 AM
#99
Posts: 184
Well, alot of players agree that a ppsh vet 2 squad can 1v1 a PG vet0 squad. I have found this to be true, and lost alot of PG's testing it, even retreating the PG's once down to 1 man and the 3 man script squad still able to wipe them on retreat. Something very wrong here. 30 munition upgrade???
76561198005515393
24 Feb 2014, 07:37 AM
#100
Posts: 2779
3*240MP versus 360MP ? 2xPG wipe your 2*cons with your 1 more.
1 PPSH give only 6 DPS more and make consripts usable in middle and late game. Grens for this dont need doctrine.
Enough of this stupid MP calculation won't ya? It is perfectly making sense while the first PG hit the field, there are 3 cons around.
30 muni for PPSH upgrade is still too cheap and no-brainer, 120 muni can change all my cons into beasts that I can only pay for a flamer HT or 2 G43. I can get them all PPSH and still able to mine everywhere, oohwa spam and molotov spam. I cannot mine if I get G43s for my Gren.
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