PPSH x3 Aftermath Update
Posts: 134
So I ask, are you ready to give up tigers and panthers? If you said no you best start learning how to deal with con spam, shocks, guards, and whatever else you find op in the early game because its "hard to deal with"
The end
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
@everyone crying about axis early game being difficult ... Do you gentlemen not realize that soviets are supposed to have an advantage early because their late game is shit compared to that of the Germans? If soviets go 50/50 early game they lose. Just like Americans did in vcoh. To make it clear: SOVIETS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A STRONGER EARLY GAME THIS IS PART OF THE BALANCE. If you want to take that away than the axis must lose late game superiority.
So I ask, are you ready to give up tigers and panthers? If you said no you best start learning how to deal with con spam, shocks, guards, and whatever else you find op in the early game because its "hard to deal with"
The end
Not entirely true. Late game Ost is better than Soviet, but it is not so clear cut. It's not like getting to minute 40 suddenly gives Ost the win. However, you are generally correct. Soviets have a stronger opening game to help them try to force victory before Ost powerful late game. This makes the game exciting by having acceleration at the light vehicle to tank stage, and then having both players clawing it out at the end...in theory.
I find the PPSH upgrade very, very good right now and a no brainier if you have it. But I am starting to think it is not OP. I need to play more to be sure. It may still need a price raise. I still think 3xPPSH's helps make scripts feel beefier, especially considering it is a doctrinal ability.
Posts: 879
But they're a little too good against Panzergrens, which leads to my main problem with the game right now: Ostheer squad wipes.
Obviously if you have PPSHes doing more damage to expensive units like Panzergrens, then they are more vulnerable to all the crazy AOE in this game. I swear I haven't had a game since the patch where I was able to keep a Panzergren alive all game. If it's not the mortars, it's the mines, or flame crits.
It's becoming really too frustrating to play - I can play Soviets and keep 4 cons alive all game, but Ostheer? No freaking way. Just too much one-shotting.
If they can't fix the AOE, they need to redo the upkeep system to be more like vCOHs - Wehrmacht had lower upkeep than the US did, which meant slowly the rifle spam advantage turned into a US disdvantage late game (without supply yard upgrades). This would let Ostheer players lose a unit or two to the one-shot one-squad effects that are all over the game and still compete.
Posts: 1130
Having played more, it seems to me the PPSh does help cons scale a bit better.
But they're a little too good against Panzergrens, which leads to my main problem with the game right now: Ostheer squad wipes.
Obviously if you have PPSHes doing more damage to expensive units like Panzergrens, then they are more vulnerable to all the crazy AOE in this game. I swear I haven't had a game since the patch where I was able to keep a Panzergren alive all game. If it's not the mortars, it's the mines, or flame crits.
It's becoming really too frustrating to play - I can play Soviets and keep 4 cons alive all game, but Ostheer? No freaking way. Just too much one-shotting.
If they can't fix the AOE, they need to redo the upkeep system to be more like vCOHs - Wehrmacht had lower upkeep than the US did, which meant slowly the rifle spam advantage turned into a US disdvantage late game (without supply yard upgrades). This would let Ostheer players lose a unit or two to the one-shot one-squad effects that are all over the game and still compete.
The PPSH upgrade doesn't automatically allow scripts to win from PG's. you need 2 scripts to make this work and even then it only works if pg is attacking not the other way around. the high mid range damage of the pg's in cover or pg's combined with grens with g43's allows a German player to overcome PPSH spam quite easily.
Also squad wipes with ppsh ages are is rare as the damage output of a ppsh drops considerably after 10 meters. in fact the best squad wipers are still PG's with their very high mid range damage.
Posts: 101
I can't believe some think this is op.
Posts: 879
The PPSH upgrade doesn't automatically allow scripts to win from PG's. you need 2 scripts to make this work and even then it only works if pg is attacking not the other way around. the high mid range damage of the pg's in cover or pg's combined with grens with g43's allows a German player to overcome PPSH spam quite easily.
Also squad wipes with ppsh ages are is rare as the damage output of a ppsh drops considerably after 10 meters. in fact the best squad wipers are still PG's with their very high mid range damage.
Could you kindly re-read the entire message? I know I'm making a subtle point here, you might not be able to keep up. Also, a vet 2 PPSH will now beat a no-vet Pgren.
Posts: 1003
Could you kindly re-read the entire message? I know I'm making a subtle point here, you might not be able to keep up. Also, a vet 2 PPSH will now beat a no-vet Pgren.
Vet 2 Pgren beat Shock troops. StG44 (MP44) have double dps versus PPSH on close. I dont understand hystery about 3xPPSH.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Could you kindly re-read the entire message? I know I'm making a subtle point here, you might not be able to keep up. Also, a vet 2 PPSH will now beat a no-vet Pgren.
Not my experience.
Vet2 conscripts still have way less DPS then vet0 pgrens.
Unless you talk about 2 squads of them.
Posts: 1664
Could you kindly re-read the entire message? I know I'm making a subtle point here, you might not be able to keep up. Also, a vet 2 PPSH will now beat a no-vet Pgren.
Seriously Dude? BE NICE. It's not that hard.
Posts: 184
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Vet 2 ppsh Scripts will beat 0 vet PG. Most scripts will be vet 2 by the time PG's come out, making this unit fairly redundant now. Add a sniper into the mix and PG's are just cannon fodder.
vet2 ppsh scripts have less DPS then vet0 PGs and same survivability.
Math says you are wrong.
Practice also says you are wrong.
Posts: 1006
Posts: 208
vet2 ppsh scripts have less DPS then vet0 PGs and same survivability.
Math says you are wrong.
Practice also says you are wrong.
Don't forget that if a PGren dies the squad loses 25% of it's firepower but it will take 4 cons dying to severely reduce the Con squads firepower.
I do find currently it is whoever "gets the drop" on the other squad will usually win the engagement (grenades not withstanding)
Posts: 208
If they can't fix the AOE, they need to redo the upkeep system to be more like vCOHs - Wehrmacht had lower upkeep than the US did, which meant slowly the rifle spam advantage turned into a US disdvantage late game (without supply yard upgrades). This would let Ostheer players lose a unit or two to the one-shot one-squad effects that are all over the game and still compete.
Yeh and why don't they change the resource system too whilst they're at it... Don't forget Wehr had bought vet so this made up considerably for squad wipes.
Personally I think they are a little too cost effective at the moment but this is massively dependant upon the map. Maps with shot blockers and cut offs spring to mind as it's just too easy to get pushed off the map as Ostheer
Posts: 2779
vet2 ppsh scripts have less DPS then vet0 PGs and same survivability.
Math says you are wrong.
Practice also says you are wrong.
One does not simply 1v1 a PG with a cons.
Posts: 4928
One does not simply 1v1 a PG with a cons.
With PPSh you do, I've done it a few times. Find light cover, throw molotov, win engagement.
Posts: 2779
With PPSh you do, I've done it a few times. Find light cover, throw molotov, win engagement.
Still have risk, and if the Ostheer player half awake, you cannot wipe the PG out.
I would choose to engage the PG with 2 cons and 1 more at his retreat route and wipe them out.
Posts: 1003
Still have risk, and if the Ostheer player half awake, you cannot wipe the PG out.
I would choose to engage the PG with 2 cons and 1 more at his retreat route and wipe them out.
3*240MP versus 360MP ? 2xPG wipe your 2*cons with your 1 more.
1 PPSH give only 6 DPS more and make consripts usable in middle and late game. Grens for this dont need doctrine.
Posts: 184
Posts: 2779
3*240MP versus 360MP ? 2xPG wipe your 2*cons with your 1 more.
1 PPSH give only 6 DPS more and make consripts usable in middle and late game. Grens for this dont need doctrine.
Enough of this stupid MP calculation won't ya? It is perfectly making sense while the first PG hit the field, there are 3 cons around.
30 muni for PPSH upgrade is still too cheap and no-brainer, 120 muni can change all my cons into beasts that I can only pay for a flamer HT or 2 G43. I can get them all PPSH and still able to mine everywhere, oohwa spam and molotov spam. I cannot mine if I get G43s for my Gren.
Livestreams
32 | |||||
10 | |||||
4 | |||||
3 | |||||
214 | |||||
17 | |||||
10 | |||||
3 | |||||
2 | |||||
1 |
Ladders Top 10
-
#Steam AliasWL%Streak
- 1.831222.789+37
- 2.34957.860+14
- 3.589215.733+4
- 4.1099614.642-1
- 5.280162.633+8
- 6.305114.728+1
- 7.916405.693-2
- 8.271108.715+22
- 9.721440.621+3
- 10.1041674.607-2
Replay highlight
- cblanco ★
- 보드카 중대
- VonManteuffel
- Heartless Jäger
Board Info
7 posts in the last week
39 posts in the last month
Welcome our newest member, jennifermary
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM