T-34-76 after patch

Overall, I still reject the T-34/76. It's fine against German T3 but if the German brings out tigers and heavies, the T-34/76 is a waste.

Functionally speaking, I think of it as a light tank rather than a medium tank.

I don't go T3 with Soviets ever. I jump right into T4 (SU-76, SU-85, and Rockets) and IS-2/ISU-152 doctrines.

The T-34 is not worth the risk. When I play as German, I feel a sense a relief that I am fighting T-34s and not SU-85s....

Soviet T3 play against German heavies is a Ram roulette supported with a ZiS here and there.

Overall, I still reject the T-34/76. It's fine against German T3 but if the German brings out tigers and heavies, the T-34/76 is a waste.

Functionally speaking, I think of it as a light tank rather than a medium tank.

I don't go T3 with Soviets ever. I jump right into T4 (SU-76, SU-85, and Rockets) and IS-2/ISU-152 doctrines.

The T-34 is not worth the risk. When I play as German, I feel a sense a relief that I am fighting T-34s and not SU-85s....

+1 i feel that the T34 is dar to delicate to sit still to shoot. I feel currently its risk is much higher than its reward.

Overall, I still reject the T-34/76. It's fine against German T3 but if the German brings out tigers and heavies, the T-34/76 is a waste.

Functionally speaking, I think of it as a light tank rather than a medium tank.

I don't go T3 with Soviets ever. I jump right into T4 (SU-76, SU-85, and Rockets) and IS-2/ISU-152 doctrines.

The T-34 is not worth the risk. When I play as German, I feel a sense a relief that I am fighting T-34s and not SU-85s....

If you watch game casts or replays of top players at all, they almost never go T4 in 1v1. It's always T3 or call-in Tanks.

T3 is far far far better than T4 in 1v1 games. In team games, T4 is useful in those stalemate scenarios.

^

I've noticed that as well. Maybe 60-70% of the time they go T3 and heavy armor call-in. however, they always get into trouble by late game as they're stuck with T-34s against heavy tanks (usually tigers).

I see the elite players doing T3 as a way of ending the game before the 30-40 minute mark.

As far as soviet T4 goes, I use all 3: SU-76, SU-85, and Rockets.

The SU-76 is usually the first thing I build, and I use it to support my pair of zis guns or infantry.

SU-76 is basically my AI armor.

I know this is a thread about the t34 ... But in general I find the biggest problem with armor battles isn't with t34 vs p4 (sure the p4 is better but its also more expensive), I can even deal with nossing panthers even though its annoying as sin and encourages reckless play, but its when we get into late game and German tigers start to roll out that things get rediculous. The tank is far too powerful for its cost and shouldn't be spammabke like it is. I'm okay with it being the best tank like it was in vcoh (exception of jadgpanther and king tiger) but I hate the spamability of it in coh2. Maybe significantly increase the call in cooldown or make it cost the same as an is2 (its a joke that its cheaper in the first place)

Long story short leave t34s as they are but get rid of tiger spam. Which will make t34s more viable late since enough of them can take out panthers at least but going against a tiger even with a hoard of them turns to ram RNG which isn't fun for anyone (don't get me wrong I love the ram ability but not in this case)

I know this is a thread about the t34 ... But in general I find the biggest problem with armor battles isn't with t34 vs p4 (sure the p4 is better but its also more expensive), I can even deal with nossing panthers even though its annoying as sin and encourages reckless play, but its when we get into late game and German tigers start to roll out that things get rediculous. The tank is far too powerful for its cost and shouldn't be spammabke like it is. I'm okay with it being the best tank like it was in vcoh (exception of jadgpanther and king tiger) but I hate the spamability of it in coh2. Maybe significantly increase the call in cooldown or make it cost the same as an is2 (its a joke that its cheaper in the first place)

Long story short leave t34s as they are but get rid of tiger spam. Which will make t34s more viable late since enough of them can take out panthers at least but going against a tiger even with a hoard of them turns to ram RNG which isn't fun for anyone (don't get me wrong I love the ram ability but not in this case)

I generally agree with your analysis, but disagree with your solutions. Tigers are spammable because they come early enough to avoid T4 builds, and are the only heavy tank the Ost has right now (beside the TD elephant). In addition, it is cheaper than the IS-2 because it is not as useful. The IS-2 can wipe squads reliably, and can engage Ost armor. On the other hand, the tiger is just good against everything, and not great at anything. Importantly you can't wipe squads reliably. And it is very vulnerable to cheap Soviet mines and AT nades (both of which have too much RNG involved in how they crit units right now).

I think Ram should be removed, it is so random as to be stupid. In no case does it make the game fun or rely on skill. It is simply the ability to potentially turn a battle you otherwise would have lost, which is the problem with the TA. If ram were removed it would be fine to give the T34 a buff. However, I really think what the T34 needs is an upgrade that will allow it to be used latter in the game if the Ost player gets heavy tanks. This is how the very ok unupgraded Sherman managed to be made viable in late game vs. the much superior Tiger tank in vCOH for a reason.

I generally agree with your analysis, but disagree with your solutions. Tigers are spammable because they come early enough to avoid T4 builds, and are the only heavy tank the Ost has right now (beside the TD elephant). In addition, it is cheaper than the IS-2 because it is not as useful. The IS-2 can wipe squads reliably, and can engage Ost armor. On the other hand, the tiger is just good against everything, and not great at anything. Importantly you can't wipe squads reliably. And it is very vulnerable to cheap Soviet mines and AT nades (both of which have too much RNG involved in how they crit units right now).

I think Ram should be removed, it is so random as to be stupid. In no case does it make the game fun or rely on skill. It is simply the ability to potentially turn a battle you otherwise would have lost, which is the problem with the TA. If ram were removed it would be fine to give the T34 a buff. However, I really think what the T34 needs is an upgrade that will allow it to be used latter in the game if the Ost player gets heavy tanks. This is how the very ok unupgraded Sherman managed to be made viable in late game vs. the much superior Tiger tank in vCOH for a reason.

Personally I would like to see the is2 lose some AI ability in order to be better AT. Russians have enougg AI tanks available to them already.

I like the idea of an upgun for the t34

Personally I would like to see the is2 lose some AI ability in order to be better AT. Russians have enougg AI tanks available to them already.

I like the idea of an upgun for the t34

The same can be said for almost everything in the soviet arsonal and I really don't think anything is going to change until they start adding new factions. While this sort of balance might work for the current two factions they will be hard pressed to balance the soviets against a less armor reliant axis faction.

I agree, the inadequate Anti-tank ability of the T-34 76/85 combined with high AI is the key annoyance in the game. It makes German infantry weaker, and encourages their armor usage- which happens to exploit the soviet late game weakness.

I generally agree with your analysis, but disagree with your solutions. Tigers are spammable because they come early enough to avoid T4 builds, and are the only heavy tank the Ost has right now (beside the TD elephant). In addition, it is cheaper than the IS-2 because it is not as useful. The IS-2 can wipe squads reliably, and can engage Ost armor. On the other hand, the tiger is just good against everything, and not great at anything. Importantly you can't wipe squads reliably. And it is very vulnerable to cheap Soviet mines and AT nades (both of which have too much RNG involved in how they crit units right now).

I think Ram should be removed, it is so random as to be stupid. In no case does it make the game fun or rely on skill. It is simply the ability to potentially turn a battle you otherwise would have lost, which is the problem with the TA. If ram were removed it would be fine to give the T34 a buff. However, I really think what the T34 needs is an upgrade that will allow it to be used latter in the game if the Ost player gets heavy tanks. This is how the very ok unupgraded Sherman managed to be made viable in late game vs. the much superior Tiger tank in vCOH for a reason.

+1

Although I don't know how you can spam Tigers when they have a popcap of 25 (if I remember correctly) and cost a fortune of mp and fuel?

Anyways. I do also think that heavy call-ins come too early and I wouldn't mind too see them moved back a few cps. I guess this would actually encourage OH to tech to t4 more frequently and soviets to maybe go both t3 and t4, which would make the game way more interessting imo.

Concerning the T-34/85 there's always the argument that the T-34/76 and the T-34/85 are different tanks and that the former technically can't be upgraded to the latter. But what if you could "buy" access to the new production line so that the 76er model gets replaced with the 85er model or something?

And abou the ram ability. I hate it and I wouldn't mind if they removed it completely along with the whole Soviet Windustry and Elite-Troops doctrine.

I wouldn't remove Ram, but I'd rework it.

T-34 ram should stun the enemy vehicle, possibly with a very small chance to immobilize. The stun on the enemy could be 8 seconds, while only 3 or 4 for the T-34 (the crew should anticipate the impact). The T-34 itself will only suffer a chip of damage from the maneuver. Ramming weak light vehicles should have a chance to 'out of control' or 'abandon' them.

I'll repeat myself. If you want to remove or change ram you will have to redesign whole Soviet T3 as right now if Soviet went T3 only build and have no fancy call ins Ram is his only hope to fight of German T4 not to mention about German truly heavy units like Tiger

I'll repeat myself. If you want to remove or change ram you will have to redesign whole Soviet T3 as right now if Soviet went T3 only build and have no fancy call ins Ram is his only hope to fight of German T4 not to mention about German truly heavy units like Tiger

You wouldn't need a complete rework if you just replace the ram crits with a long stun.

What you would get is a predictable behavior where a ram would give supporting AT units enough time to damage an enemy tank. You can add some small RNG to the amount of damage dealt on impact and/or stun duration.

What you remove is the chance that a single diceroll will either win or lose the game for you.

I would remove RAM and add AP round ability to Soviet AT guns.

AP?

AP?

Armour Piercing

T-34/76 is for me very weak. Versus OST tanks you have little chance.
I allways have two ZiS-3 behind, but for me is it lost fuel. (Team games)

I dunno, I think stun-ramming would be more versatile, at least that way you aren't gambling your tank away.

RAM is such a gimmick ability, it's even worse than infantry inside roos in vcoh. Bad design is bad.

Unfortunately RAM is the only way to deal with German heavies/call-ins. (though i agree it is very gimmicky, along with lots of soviet units)

The matchup between the t34/76 and p4 is weird, sometimes I see a p4 win outright and sometimes I see a p4 recieve heavy damage before destroying t34, but p4 always wins (RNG I guess). I'd like to see the t34/76 buffed slightly, I love that tank and its great when you vet it, though i don't keep them alive for to long.

Having t34/76 and at guns in support is an absolute winning combo.

RAM is such a gimmick ability, it's even worse than infantry inside roos in vcoh. Bad design is bad.

Get used to it.

Its not going anywhere as long as best T3 unit have 80 penetration.