Penals PPSH

Does anyone know how much model drops ramp up the DPS of the PPSH? It always seemed to me like it should synergize pretty well but I've never known the specifics.

the penals get a solid stat increase to their model dps, but i doubt that it is better than having a living squad member

It should be 4% ACC, 2% cooldown, 3% REC ACC for each model lost.
In theory works well together and at VET2 with bonus should be a potent squad. Issue is the weapon drop does not give a smoke nade or oorah or any other ability to allow better use of weapon upgrade. So lots of micro is required compared to pretty much every other SMG unit.

Sadly the PPsH penal squad kinda had to be nerfed out of the game in order to implement necessary nerfs for SVT conscripts (without doing complex dps adjustments to SVT cons that you cant fix afterwards if it's underpowered, cuz it's last patch of coh2)

CQC units already struggle in the current meta of coh2 and ppsh penals got it the worst I'd say. Their dps is very high because they have shocktroop ppsh and the highest accuracy vet bonus in coh2, but they die very fast and got nothing to protect themselves.

Sadly the PPsH penal squad kinda had to be nerfed out of the game in order to implement necessary nerfs for SVT conscripts (without doing complex dps adjustments to SVT cons that you cant fix afterwards if it's underpowered, cuz it's last patch of coh2)

CQC units already struggle in the current meta of coh2 and ppsh penals got it the worst I'd say. Their dps is very high because they have shocktroop ppsh and the highest accuracy vet bonus in coh2, but they die very fast and got nothing to protect themselves.

The whole airdrop weapon crates thing was a badly designed and should had been be scraped.

Does anyone know how much model drops ramp up the DPS of the PPSH? It always seemed to me like it should synergize pretty well but I've never known the specifics.

Damage is increased by about 4,5%. This means that you lose about 12,9% damage if the first model drops instead of the 16,6%. Really nothing huge, but okay. Not enough by far for saving PPSh Penals from being UP.

PPSh Penals just show how important RA, stealth and sprint are to CQC squads. MP40 Volks are the only second CQC unit lacking all three, but at the very least they come with smoke on top of the normal Faust and incendiary that Volks carry and better RA when vetted.

PPSh Penals sit somewhere in the middle.
Too large RA for being good at assaulting, no real utility, no ATG backup so you'd still need PTRS Penals at some point. They even come with a commander that gives you PPSh Guards if you want, that do everything PPSh Penals can do but better.

Sadly the PPsH penal squad kinda had to be nerfed out of the game in order to implement necessary nerfs for SVT conscripts (without doing complex dps adjustments to SVT cons that you cant fix afterwards if it's underpowered, cuz it's last patch of coh2)

CQC units already struggle in the current meta of coh2 and ppsh penals got it the worst I'd say. Their dps is very high because they have shocktroop ppsh and the highest accuracy vet bonus in coh2, but they die very fast and got nothing to protect themselves.

So theoretically speaking they could be OK if you use a troop transport to get them close but that's kind of a waste of fuel just to make them a passable unit.

So theoretically speaking they could be OK if you use a troop transport to get them close but that's kind of a waste of fuel just to make them a passable unit.

They would be good if snares weren't so prevalent

They even come with a commander that gives you PPSh Guards if you want, that do everything PPSh Penals can do but better.

Yeah theres barely any reason to get ppsh penals, and on top of that u have this^

Ppsh guards get camo with the upgrade, and there ppsh are free. If ur gonna callin the drop, only use it for SVT cons

Root of the problem is always Soviet teching. In this case you have to go t2 as cons with the commander and then get guards. It's not a valid choice for t1.

There are other commanders that drop support guns, that's a t1 commander. You go penal, sniper into air drops.

And cons. The balance team wanted a way to make them do more early game, before 7 man is available.
But ppsh on penals is so niche it's like flamer on penals... Which was removed for being contrary to their intended role...

The commanders are band aids intended to try and cover up glaring faults of teching

delete. retarded comment by me.

Root of the problem is always Soviet teching. In this case you have to go t2 as cons with the commander and then get guards. It's not a valid choice for t1.

There are other commanders that drop support guns, that's a t1 commander. You go penal, sniper into air drops.

And cons. The balance team wanted a way to make them do more early game, before 7 man is available.
But ppsh on penals is so niche it's like flamer on penals... Which was removed for being contrary to their intended role...

The commanders are band aids intended to try and cover up glaring faults of teching

Flamers on penal were not niche but OP as hell and it was removed for being op and not for being "contrary to their intended role". (Flamer where available to them from launch)

As for original commander in faction design, yes it was there to cover the "holes" (not faults) in teching and that is why Soviet have access to so many doctrinal units. But the "holes" in teching where fixed when the Soviet tech become 3 building instead of two and doctrinal access remained.

Sigh. It's not fixed because you get mg and mortar and at gun in t2.

Economy is not balanced around getting both t1 and t2

Sigh. It's not fixed because you get mg and mortar and at gun in t2.

Economy is not balanced around getting both t1 and t2

There is difference between being linear and having something wrong with it.

One simply can choose how one wants to play. "Airdropped weapons" is a badly designed ability and that has very little to do with Soviet tech tree.

I'm not disagreeing vipper, but you're mixing arguments.

If rus play were linear you'd go t1 into t2. Nobody does that. This means that tech is linear - but the economy stops players from doing it. Therefore yes rus is linear and also there are economy problems leading to tech gaps.

Airdrop weapons are bad design that does have something to do with rus tech tree: it fills the gaps left by teching economically. It's up to you if that's very little or a major issue.

As for original commander in faction design, yes it was there to cover the "holes" (not faults) in teching and that is why Soviet have access to so many doctrinal units. But the "holes" in teching where fixed when the Soviet tech become 3 building instead of two and doctrinal access remained.

So let me get this,

you are saying that everything is ok since the balance team stopped making t1 and t2 mutually exclusive.

I would agree with you if there was not fuel cost with them, because going t1 + t2 doubles the fuel requirement for the game saving T70.

At any rate SOV tech tree is more than balanced, having the most OP units from docs (120mm, Guards, 85mm T34) so really non issue.

So let me get this,

you are saying that everything is ok since the balance team stopped making t1 and t2 mutually exclusive.

I would agree with you if there was not fuel cost with them, because going t1 + t2 doubles the fuel requirement for the game saving T70.

At any rate SOV tech tree is more than balanced, having the most OP units from docs (120mm, Guards, 85mm T34) so really non issue.

If in your opinion there are "glaring faults" in Soviet teching feel free to explain what they are if not I suggest you move.

The old Soviet tech tree was more restrictive than the current one.
(T3 with m5/T-70/T-34 T4 with Katy/SU-76/SU-85)

If in your opinion there are "glaring faults" in Soviet teching feel free to explain what they are if not I suggest you move.

The old Soviet tech tree was more restrictive than the current one.

No there are not I have said so repeatedly.

Currently, OST/SOV tech trees are perfect for their purposes.

Trying to get back on topic.

Damage is increased by about 4,5%. This means that you lose about 12,9% damage if the first model drops instead of the 16,6%. Really nothing huge, but okay. Not enough by far for saving PPSh Penals from being UP.

PPSh Penals just show how important RA, stealth and sprint are to CQC squads. MP40 Volks are the only second CQC unit lacking all three, but at the very least they come with smoke on top of the normal Faust and incendiary that Volks carry and better RA when vetted.

PPSh Penals sit somewhere in the middle.
Too large RA for being good at assaulting, no real utility, no ATG backup so you'd still need PTRS Penals at some point. They even come with a commander that gives you PPSh Guards if you want, that do everything PPSh Penals can do but better.

Dont Penals and Volks have the same RA when vetted(according to march 2021 patch notes), both come out to a target size of .77.
Cost from 300 to 290
Reinforce time from 5.4 to 4.5
Veterancy 3 weapon accuracy from +30% to +20%
Veterancy 2 Received accuracy from -15% to -23%

So at VET1 VG is slightly better, VET2 Penals become a beast and VET3 Penals are still better due to increased ACC. Like you said the biggest difference is lack of utility, adding OORAH or smoke nade would make it an actual useful upgrade.
I also agree with your other point, there is no reason for this commander to give PPSH since Guards get it for free and can cloak.. Like I have said in other threads giving Penals access to the PPSH upgrade would make Penal starts viable with more commanders.

Soviet Reserve would give PPSH Penals, Commissar for field healing and AT/MG without backtech.
Advanced warfare would give you radio intercept so you can hold off on PTRS upgrade as long as possible, PPSH Penals, T3485 and the ability to repair them with your penals.
Finally Conscript Support could be renamed to Infantry support with PPSh, KV1 with Penals able to repair and Rapid conscription to keep up with the Assaulting theme of the commander/Penals.

Each commander also has an ability arty/offmap/skill planes to make them attractive for team games. I know there wont be a patch but hell it would be a nice MOD to play so it isn't the exact same commanders everytime.

Dont Penals and Volks have the same RA when vetted(according to march 2021 patch notes), both come out to a target size of .77.
Cost from 300 to 290
Reinforce time from 5.4 to 4.5
Veterancy 3 weapon accuracy from +30% to +20%
Veterancy 2 Received accuracy from -15% to -23%

You're actually right on this one. I just quickly looked it up on serealia and the site was not updated for the Penal change. My bad.