Sturmtiger over nerfed

The funniest BS I've since for the day.

Why not give pio a AT nade & remove it from the gren? That would be awesone buff to the OST according to your logic right?

It would be even acceptable to give them a one schrek if it costs gren not having AT nade.

As mentioned by Julian: That would actually be a buff to OST, given that many strats revolve around purposely not building grenadiers.

Yup same as why a certain mg wich beats the competition by miles is t0 and costs the exact same.

Why does the okw Panther get 2 extra levels of vet but cost the se as the ost Panther? See also up armoured p4 and lefh and pak43 and any other overlap units I may be forgetting?
Faction design is more than just flavor. It is also balance..Ostheer is unable to match the enemies in a battle of attrition (straight up, tommies are easier per head to replace than grens, despite the clear performance and scaling gaps) thusly Ostheer is better at controlling enemy infantry to reduce losses.
The mg42 is absolutely the best mg in the game, but that isn't freely so.

As a once first-page UKF main player, I'd say it favors OST player by about 7:3 ATM if both players have equal skill.

Mainline inf. not having access to AT nade is very very serious flaw. Unless you are going for some weird tactic where you build 4 or more engineers.

Mainline not having a snare is plenty viable as long as alternatives are available. The problem, in the case of the brits is "balancing" gutted the alternatives. The sniper used to be a snare, the AEC is a snare, tulips are a snare. Tommies jobs was STRICTLY to fight from cover and win in that scenario. Armour was their counter. That in itself was countered by weapon racks and multiple unit snares. Compromise wlin design is the downfall of balance because you are left with the mess that is the brits today....

Why does the okw Panther get 2 extra levels of vet but cost the se as the ost Panther? See also up armoured p4 and lefh and pak43 and any other overlap units I may be forgetting?
Faction design is more than just flavor. It is also balance..Ostheer is unable to match the enemies in a battle of attrition (straight up, tommies are easier per head to replace than grens, despite the clear performance and scaling gaps) thusly Ostheer is better at controlling enemy infantry to reduce losses.
The mg42 is absolutely the best mg in the game, but that isn't freely so.

The itent of my post wasnt to complain about units being better for simaler cost. I agreed or at least thats what i wanted to show is that comparing unit cost across factions in a vacuum isent a viable comparison.

I am not the most knowligable on okw but the okw p4 and panther cost more the the ost counterparts afaik or i missed the cost buffs to okw armour. Things being better and for the most part more expensive is also balance or flavor between axis factions.

Other then that i am in full agrement with your post.

if the range nerf on the Sturmtiger is going to stay then the AVRE should also get a 5 range nerf otherwise the Sturmtiger has no advantage over the AVRE

otherwise the Sturmtiger has no advantage over the AVRE

good, should've gutted the rest of this forsaken doctrine into obscurity, but the heat rounds alone move it up a tier

if the range nerf on the Sturmtiger is going to stay then the AVRE should also get a 5 range nerf otherwise the Sturmtiger has no advantage over the AVRE

It has a hp advantidge over the avre and a total damage advantidge wich lets it do a bit better vs vehicles but the avre is better vs inf with a bigger one hit kill radius. It has a speed advantidge as well i believe over the avre.

if the range nerf on the Sturmtiger is going to stay then the AVRE should also get a 5 range nerf otherwise the Sturmtiger has no advantage over the AVRE

it is a more tanky and with veterancy (at vet 2) becomes way more tanky. ST also does dmg up to 14 range, while AVRE only up to 8
Old stats: (prices were nerfed for both, AVRE armor is 260 now, ST range is 35 at all vets + no sight vet bonus)

The only thing which is unfair about ST nerf is that AVRE didnt get same CP\price nerf.

Assymetrical design
They aren't the same units, not in the same faction, and not fighting the same enemies.

Plz, everybody stop comparing two units from either team as if they are the same.

ST has a commander upgrade that increases range. Does AVRE have it? Then why do you want one change to apply to both? They are different

Assymetrical design
They aren't the same units, not in the same faction, and not fighting the same enemies.

Plz, everybody stop comparing two units from either team as if they are the same.

ST has a commander upgrade that increases range. Does AVRE have it? Then why do you want one change to apply to both? They are different

St cant be upgraded with commander. yes...other tank like panther and p4 get commander..but wait...most brits tanks get this to. even without a special doctrine

St cant be upgraded with commander. yes...other tank like panther and p4 get commander..but wait...most brits tanks get this to. even without a special doctrine

Whatever it is, my point is that the units are different.

...Plz, everybody stop comparing two units from either team as if they are the same....

St cant be upgraded with commander. yes...other tank like panther and p4 get commander..but wait...most brits tanks get this to. even without a special doctrine

Well, this somehow makes a point in itself...

Assymetrical design
They aren't the same units, not in the same faction, and not fighting the same enemies.

Plz, everybody stop comparing two units from either team as if they are the same.

ST has a commander upgrade that increases range. Does AVRE have it? Then why do you want one change to apply to both? They are different

why not tho? Imo the units are very similar. The only difference in opposition is that AVRE faces panthers with occasional shreks (not a good counter tho) and ST faces 60 range high pen tank destroyers. Imo this is like comparing p4 to m4 sherman. They face different enemies, they have different stats, but they are both generalist medium tanks.

currently the sturmtiger is not used because it cannot solo win the game anymore

funnily enough, i still see the doctrine around, everyone who uses it utilizes the rather great abilities that it provides, just not the ST

why not tho? Imo the units are very similar. The only difference in opposition is that AVRE faces panthers with occasional shreks (not a good counter tho) and ST faces 60 range high pen tank destroyers. Imo this is like comparing p4 to m4 sherman. They face different enemies, they have different stats, but they are both generalist medium tanks.

No way m4 Sherman and p4 are the same. M4 belongs to a super aggressive versatile and mobile faction. It is supposed to be fast, accurate while moving and generalist.

P4 is supposed to be armored and strong and defensive.

Seriously if players like you keep balancing units symmetrically you will ruin the uniqueness of the units for the rest of us.

This is unfortunately how many of the balance changes were cuz non-designers made them.

The amount of times I read "to be better aligned with..." is all the times a unit's uniqueness was removed.

For example IS cover bonuses and out of cover penalties being removed so it can be like other infantry. Terrible decision because the faction was originally designed to be defensive.

So no, M4 Sherman is not the same. US need to flank, Germans don't need to as much. Not sure why this needs explanation.

You're the type to say "p4 needs to shoot smoke too like m4 sherman" not taking into account that USF doesn't have a MG42 and USF is not super defensive. That's why USF has always been strong against OH, cuz smoke is good against defensive factions. That's why OKW is tough as USF cuz OKW is aggressive too

You're the type to say "p4 needs to shoot smoke too like m4 sherman" not taking into account that USF doesn't have a MG42 and USF is not super defensive. That's why USF has always been strong against OH, cuz smoke is good against defensive factions. That's why OKW is tough as USF cuz OKW is aggressive too

I'd say every medium can be compared to each other in terms of cost/performance within factional context, like P4H/P4J and m4a3/t34-76/cromwell. Same with any type of armor, except maybe a panther in context of TDs, because it is unique enough to make comparison iffy, yet the core role is the same. Even kv1 can be compared to t34-85, because the result of your comparison could be a deciding factor in what commander you pick, yet one is a "heavy tank" the other is a medium tank.

So why not ST and AVRE then? They both are heavy tanks with huge AOE, big killing radius and huge damage in the center, both stun vehicles in the blast radius (ST stuns radius is much bigger tho). Basically 2 oneshot long reload heavy tanks with enough differences to be unique by its own.
BTW I don't think AVRE is better then ST, even after the nerf.

So why not ST and AVRE then?

Of course they are comparable, it's just not an argument in balancing. Balance changes are made purely based on a unit itself, not because some other unit in a totally different faction has this or that compared to it. There is no us versus them beyond the petty squables of the fanboys. Everything is balanced individually, based on how something performs within its own faction.

Of course they are comparable, it's just not an argument in balancing. Balance changes are made purely based on a unit itself, not because some other unit in a totally different faction has this or that compared to it. There is no us versus them beyond the petty squables of the fanboys. Everything is balanced individually, based on how something performs within its own faction.

Couldn't have said it better. Yes!

currently the sturmtiger is not used because it cannot solo win the game anymore

I don't think the Sturmtiger has solo won a game in years

I don't think the Sturmtiger has solo won a game in years

Oh yes it did. Not a year ago, but before the patch.