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OKW and USF doesn't get alot of love in the last patch

27 Jun 2021, 20:06 PM
#41
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

OKW was megabuffed this patch. If you knew how to play the faction, one look in the patch notes would have been enough.


I know that OKW was buffed like the other factions, but as I said before I don't complain about balance, I just think that they could have added new units without breaking the balance.
27 Jun 2021, 20:09 PM
#42
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 20:06 PMOlfin


I know as I said before I don't complain about balance, I just think that they could add new units without breaking it.


Adding new units has nothing to do with balance, they don't have the mod tools needed to import models into the game and Relic prohibits new units due to needing specific voice lines to keep up with the game's "fidelity". Even Raid Sections are just re-used pyrotechnics sections.

Your other ideas for 251 and engineers are either OP and redundant (251) or impossible/weird (engineers). New officer is also a bad idea since it'd be the exact same as sturm offizier and just confuse people for no reason.
27 Jun 2021, 20:13 PM
#43
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 18:18 PMKatitof

Some people should understand this....
Less then 5% deviation from 50% means faction -IS- balanced.


Its really not.
Its exactly how healthy balance should look like(except for underperforming brits).

Did all you people pretended to be sick or run from school when statistical analysis was being served on lectures?
Differences between 4 of 5 factions are within error margin, given obviously not all players have equal skill.

You'll never see perfect 50% in a game with less then 7 digit population and anyone who knows a single shit about statistics will tell you that that 5% deviation is perfectly fine balance.

If you don't believe me, get a coin and start tossing it.
Tell me what results you've got fter 20 tosses and then after 200.


Since you're lecturing people on statistics, please answer a couple of dumb questions for me.

What type of data is win/loss?
What is the difference between error margin, margin of error, and statistical significance?
How would you calculate a standard of deviation for wins and losses? Why would you want to calculate something like that?
27 Jun 2021, 20:14 PM
#44
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167



Adding new units has nothing to do with balance, they don't have the mod tools needed to import models into the game and Relic prohibits new units due to needing specific voice lines to keep up with the game's "fidelity". Even Raid Sections are just re-used pyrotechnics sections.

Your other ideas for 251 and engineers are either OP and redundant (251) or impossible/weird (engineers). New officer is also a bad idea since it'd be the exact same as sturm offizier and just confuse people for no reason.


We couldn't know if they are OP if we didn't try them, I Know about the problems you said, but they already break some of them in this patch, so maybe some of the ideas could be tested at least and if they were OP they could be removed it is that simple.
27 Jun 2021, 20:18 PM
#45
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954


Should be obvious that's a no go. There's not a single heavy tank commander that also has an offmap that is powerful enough to kill howitzers or defensive positions, for a good reason.


Since the commander upgrade in Elite Armor is okay, could you please add it to the Puma and JP4?
27 Jun 2021, 21:07 PM
#46
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 20:18 PMGrumpy


Since the commander upgrade in Elite Armor is okay, could you please add it to the Puma and JP4?

proably isnt a model for it. might be a bit strong on the puma also because of the arty. too cheap and mobile of a unit though the other buffs would certainly be nice for them both...
27 Jun 2021, 21:25 PM
#47
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772


It is, eh? Interesting, could have really done with that knowledge last game vs the Soviet conscript and weapons team tide. Very good to know. B-) What exactly about the slower projectile makes it so lethal? People really walk into the new shell? I tried it out but came under the impression that it was still very easily dodged (even if it doesn't collide with a twig anymore). Maybe I'm missing something....

It became more reliable.
For example I played vs OKW 2v2, owned dude whole game, but ST stalled it a lot. If you can't listen to its engine noise every second of the game, it becomes very problematic, especially vs HMG. It just kills it faster then you are able to retreat it.

Elpern with Kpen are now spamming the doctrine and Elpern came to a conclusion that it is definitely overperforming with current timing, price and performance. Jibber also wasn't happy with new ST, when he played vs it.
27 Jun 2021, 22:30 PM
#48
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 20:13 PMGrumpy


Since you're lecturing people on statistics, please answer a couple of dumb questions for me.

What type of data is win/loss?

Its just raw data. You don't need to dig too deep here.
What is the difference between error margin, margin of error

Semantical.
statistical significance?

Are you asking for a definition or why win ratio data for top 200, the data based on skilled use of units by people with knowledge and ability to use then properly is more important then data based on ullumulus, thekingsowns and mr.matrix300 masses?
How would you calculate a standard of deviation for wins and losses? Why would you want to calculate something like that?

I wouldn't, you can't quantify skill of players and that alone creates unmeasurable deviation.
You can't use bell curve, because its irrelevant how mid level players play, they can't use units to full potential, hence we go for top 200 and even there, difference between top 200 and top 20 is too massive to measure properly, hence standard 5% deviation would be used.
27 Jun 2021, 23:01 PM
#49
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 22:30 PMKatitof

Are you asking for a definition or why win ratio data for top 200, the data based on skilled use of units by people with knowledge and ability to use then properly is more important then data based on ullumulus, thekingsowns and vipper masses?


You do realize that Vipper is rank ~100 in some factions ?



27 Jun 2021, 23:13 PM
#50
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



You do realize that Vipper is rank ~100 in some factions ?




Thanks for heads up, I've switched him out to get the point across without any doubt or nitpicking.
27 Jun 2021, 23:51 PM
#51
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 23:13 PMKatitof

Thanks for heads up, I've switched him out to get the point across without any doubt or nitpicking.


Like I said. Classic Katitof moment. Hasn't played a game in ages but gardens on people because they are only Rank 13

28 Jun 2021, 00:30 AM
#52
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 22:30 PMKatitof

Its just raw data. You don't need to dig too deep here.

Semantical.

Are you asking for a definition or why win ratio data for top 200, the data based on skilled use of units by people with knowledge and ability to use then properly is more important then data based on ullumulus, thekingsowns and mr.matrix300 masses?

I wouldn't, you can't quantify skill of players and that alone creates unmeasurable deviation.
You can't use bell curve, because its irrelevant how mid level players play, they can't use units to full potential, hence we go for top 200 and even there, difference between top 200 and top 20 is too massive to measure properly, hence standard 5% deviation would be used.


Win/loss is nominal data. You have to transform it before you can do any statistical analysis.
Margin of error is normally just used on opinion polls, not when comparing if one treatment is different than another.
Statistical significance is the term normally used when comparing treatment (Factions in this case). It is definitely not always 5%. This might help:

https://www.statisticshowto.com/probability-and-statistics/statistics-definitions/p-value/

Why be so harsh on him? It didn't seem like he was trying to be a jerk.
28 Jun 2021, 07:18 AM
#53
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1


It became more reliable.
For example I played vs OKW 2v2, owned dude whole game, but ST stalled it a lot. If you can't listen to its engine noise every second of the game, it becomes very problematic, especially vs HMG. It just kills it faster then you are able to retreat it.

Elpern with Kpen are now spamming the doctrine and Elpern came to a conclusion that it is definitely overperforming with current timing, price and performance. Jibber also wasn't happy with new ST, when he played vs it.


I had a game where the ST OS every single of my squads at each shot, then OS a Sherman and then almost OS a Jackson.
I still have the replay I guess.
28 Jun 2021, 07:26 AM
#54
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2021, 07:18 AMEsxile


then OS a Sherman

And everybody clapped
28 Jun 2021, 07:29 AM
#55
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

OKW in history get non doctrinal MG32, PzIV and KT. All important have in stock.
28 Jun 2021, 08:08 AM
#56
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2021, 07:29 AMAradan
OKW in history get non doctrinal MG32, PzIV and KT. All important have in stock.


I will take the brummber over KT and, mg42 over mg34 and sniper over P4 ausf, the conclusion OKW stock is as good as other factions stock and each faction stock has its uniqueness for example OKW has Missing roles in their stock like snipers which is missing in commanders too) and transport LV, while Ostheer and Soviets have everything in their roster and I am not complaining about that,but I said it to explain that your point is not valid .
28 Jun 2021, 08:15 AM
#57
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2021, 08:08 AMOlfin


I will take the brummber over KT and, mg42 over mg34 and sniper over P4 ausf, the conclusion OKW stock is as good as other factions stock and each faction stock has its uniqueness for example OKW don't has Missing roles in their stock like snipers which is missing in commanders too) and transport LV, while Ostheer and Soviets have everything in their roster and I am not complaining about that,but I said it to explain that your point is not valid .

JLI is the sniper of OKW, just like pathfinders are snipers for US.
OKW has all critical units it needs, what you're seem to be asking for her is ostheer but with different icon now.
28 Jun 2021, 08:42 AM
#58
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2021, 08:15 AMKatitof

JLI is the sniper of OKW, just like pathfinders are snipers for US.
OKW has all critical units it needs, what you're seem to be asking for her is ostheer but with different icon now.


No they are not snipers, they are similar but couldn't be considered snipers, and my point is that OKW stock is not better than other factions stock , so arguing if JLI are snipers or not doesn't help in that regard.
28 Jun 2021, 08:47 AM
#59
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2021, 08:42 AMOlfin


No they are not snipers, they are similar but couldn't be considered snipers, and my point is that OKW stock is not better than other factions stock , so arguing if JLI are snipers or not doesn't help in that regard.

No, they are not mechanically, but they are closest okw and usf will ever get to vanila one, but they serve the same role, taking down entities with high health with one shot.

OKW stock is NOT MEANT to be better then other factions stock.
OKW has what others don't and OKW lacks what others don't - that is how asymmetrical balance works.

You want to play ostheer, but you don't want to switch to ostheer, you want to mold okw into ostheer and that isn't going to happen, so you might want to just play ostheer if you want to play ostheer so badly.

I don't even know why this thread is still going as it was already well established you have no valid balance reason what so ever to give anything else to OKW and just want to give them things for the sake of giving them things.
28 Jun 2021, 09:04 AM
#60
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2021, 08:47 AMKatitof

No, they are not mechanically, but they are closest okw and usf will ever get to vanila one, but they serve the same role, taking down entities with high health with one shot.

OKW stock is NOT MEANT to be better then other factions stock.
OKW has what others don't and OKW lacks what others don't - that is how asymmetrical balance works.

You want to play ostheer, but you don't want to switch to ostheer, you want to mold okw into ostheer and that isn't going to happen, so you might want to just play ostheer if you want to play ostheer so badly.

I don't even know why this thread is still going as it was already well established you have no valid balance reason what so ever to give anything else to OKW and just want to give them things for the sake of giving them things.


You keep talking nonsense , I never complained about anything u said, obviously you have some problems in understanding what others write and only see what you want to see, and thanks to god it is not your choice to close threads for a very good reason, now finally if u don't like the thread you are free to leave it no one will miss u believe me.
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