RK 43

TBH, I'm quite surprised anyone thinking 57 is the best AT gun. Thought (at least in Kor. community) we all agreed on the pak 40 is the best one.

To be fair though, the HVAP rounds give you about 3% better chance to penetrate a Panther/Brummbar than an equivalently vetted 6 pounder and about 6% compared to a ZiS. It's better, but overall not THAT much. Especially if you consider that a first shot might often be wasted during an enemy attack because the rounds are not popped yet and that without them you have a way way worse chance.

Again, at vet, the vanilla 57mm performs decently worse than other ATGs and about similar with HVAP rounds. Without vet, it performs worse without and better with HVAP.

You are comparing only penetration when M1 has other benefits over other ATG like:

33% Wider arc
28% faster weapon rotation
Higher speed
lower scatter angle

a second ability for extra range and sight.

TBH, I'm quite surprised anyone thinking 57 is the best AT gun. Thought (at least in Kor. community) we all agreed on the pak 40 is the best one.

There hardly is a single best AT gun. They all have similar base performance but great individual perks.

You are comparing only penetration when M1 has other benefits over other ATG like:

33% Wider arc
28% faster weapon rotation
Higher speed
lower scatter angle

a second ability for extra range and sight.

Yes, because I was responding to someone that was talking about penetration only.
The 57mm has other perks. However I am not sure about the higher speed and weapon rotation, I thought they were normed at vet0? At least serealia shows they were, is that wrong?

Unfortunately it also loses one of its main advantages, the higher ROF, with vet.

I don't know. Truth be told, I quite like the USF AT gun. In my view, it's the best. Raketen is cancerous to play against. Again, a bit lower range and all, but the retreat really is cancerous. The number of times 2 raketen were playing the role of a frontline unit, nuking vehicles and then retreating.... rage inducing.

Funnily, it's hard to wipe raketen with small arms but a granade straight up destroys all models. Last game 2x rifles with 2bars were unable to wipe 1 raketen running up to them and then a couple of seconds of retreat, whereas a nade that didn't even hit it well, somehow wiped all models off it.

TBH, I'm quite surprised anyone thinking 57 is the best AT gun. Thought (at least in Kor. community) we all agreed on the pak 40 is the best one.

Well, I don't mean to discredit peoples opinions but I think it's hard for most people to notice in the grand scheme of things how much the 57m hurts you as USF cuz on paper it SOUNDS good. "Whoa 30 muni for extra pen? Awesome!" "Whoa I can snipe a tank? Awesome1" Then you notice you'd spend 60 for all that, a Bar. Then you typically need TWO at guns. Then you realize that if you don't use the abilities, you won't pen a p4. Then you realize that your veterancy bonuses don't actually help you, but other factions vet bonuses on AT guns make them BECOME 57m with AP rounds passively.

There are golden moments where someone runs an unprotected tank into two 57ms with AP rounds and it doesn't bounce(rng), and disintegrates the enemy tank. So it skews opinions.

It doesn't, 1 bar already destroys any enemy mainline

That's a pretty false statement. When you look at it the Bar isn't a crazy good gun. It's basically a better Garande, which means it only ever really shines if you get close. Getting close means running out in the open getting shot at and losing models. If you ever really want a one up on your opponent you'll need two bars.

That's a pretty false statement. When you look at it the Bar isn't a crazy good gun. It's basically a better Garande, which means it only ever really shines if you get close.

It's an improvement that double ups the dps compared to the Garand at 35 range. Compared to the Stg44 vs the kar 98 the same improvement of double dps is seen only at 15 range. The only threats to a single bar riflemen are superior enemy cover, Obersoldaten, vetted Panzergrens or Grenadiers with mg42 at max range in green cover, surely not sturmpioneers or volks with stg.

Regarding the 57mm ATG, I'd rather get rid of the take aim ability and either replace it by some other utility, or just flat out change it to a vet bonus for penetration and/or reload. The problem with this ability is that it only makes sense with HVAP rounds, otherwise you'll just likely bounce, but now on range 70 instead of 60.
The overall vet reload bonus of the 57mm could go up to -50% (most of its delays are wind up times compared to other ATGs, a bonus of 50% is similar to a 30% bonus for other ATGs). Barring though that a double ATG should not outright delete mediums. However other ATGs get big bonusses as well, this would simply keep some of the ROF advantage that the 57mm has. At this point the HVAP rounds could maybe get a slight readjustment to give less pen, but also cost less.

The 57 is fantastic for its price.
Look at it this way:
Say you had grens. 240mp squad that ain't shit compared to 280mp squads. No imagine they had an ability called "meth chocolate" that made em into obers for a while.

I want Gren to have Meth chocolate ability.

Say you had grens. 240mp squad that ain't shit compared to 280mp squads. No imagine they had an ability called "meth chocolate" that made em into obers for a while.
You then have all the advantages of cheap grens, but the ferocity of obers when you need it.

I thought For the Fatherland basically did that? Models not dropping = More firepower

It's an improvement that double ups the dps compared to the Garand at 35 range. Compared to the Stg44 vs the kar 98 the same improvement of double dps is seen only at 15 range. The only threats to a single bar riflemen are superior enemy cover, Obersoldaten, vetted Panzergrens or Grenadiers with mg42 at max range in green cover, surely not sturmpioneers or volks with stg.

That's a bit disingenuous because you get two STG44's for the price of one bar, so technically you start to double up on dps in the 25-30 range. You also ignore the fact that you just get the option to upgrade for teching wheras USF have to tech for it. You can also just upgrade it on the field for shock value. They have different advantages and keeping USF at range is a big deal. Volks aren't the greatest combat unit but imo you aren't giving them credit in their power spike to STG44s vs One Bar riflemen with low veterancy.

Yes, because I was responding to someone that was talking about penetration only.
The 57mm has other perks. However I am not sure about the higher speed and weapon rotation, I thought they were normed at vet0? At least serealia shows they were, is that wrong?

Unfortunately it also loses one of its main advantages, the higher ROF, with vet.

not rotation of the "vehicle" but how fast the gun track within it arc. The combination of wider and faster track allow the unit to fire faster at targets without having to reposition.

(edited)

snip

Track, not truck. I got confused.

The reason for rage is a 3 rak blob is effectively a schreck blob. Pop a shot, try for 2, then retreat at the first sight of pain. Its not necessary good, just incredibly aggravating.

Its not a great AT gun.

I'll have to try that. I've just been using two of them. They work a lot better if you use them behind upgraded JLI's or Panzerfusiliers. It's not really my favorite but it's better than most people are claiming.

Also, every time I see people whining about the Rak, I remember this game:




(I can't tell if others are seeing the link- but in this game, my MVP as USF was the Raketen while my meat shield was the 57.)

in Axis repesective, 57mm is the best AT gun because:
- one of the best ROF ATG.
- Wide arc, fast aim time + Combo Take Aim + HVAP dominating all Alies Heavy tanks.
- default pen good enough to pen M4 75/76, T-34-76, Cromwell in all range. You hardly need HVAP, just take aim and see hot knije cut through butter.
In USF side, well that is another story because armor values matter.
RK 43 cloak ability actually good. At the time you got shot, second shell was already on barrel. there is no time for alies medium tank can do if you got hit by 2 vetted 3 RK 43 cloaked.