RK 43

The 57mm is great when it comes out, but falls off later because the other AT guns (ignore reket) get very good veterancy that make them fire faster and hit harder. As Leith says, it's great as axis against usf because their armor is paper. I was thinking this the other day when I used a Pershing that the Pershing actually isn't that bad, but Axis AT weaponry is so good that it deters it better then say, a 57mm against a panther.

About the Reket, I don't like it simply because it promotes bad play with the ability to fallback. So it just further encourages OKW players to blob and when things go south hit fallback on everything. I think it'd be far better to just get a standard AT gun anyway since the Reket misses so much.

I was thinking this the other day when I used a Pershing that the Pershing actually isn't that bad, but Axis AT weaponry is so good that it deters it better then say, a 57mm against a panther. .

Pershing do have good AI dmg, but its armor(270) is actually less than vet2 panther.
Too sad... it needs to have at least 300 (same as tiger) IMO...

The Reketen is both a bad AT gun and a good Schreck squad, not a proper AT gun. As such, it has all the same problems of Schreck squads when used in that fashion. A-move into allied armor, retreat away after snapping the shot. It comes with all the bleed issues of Schreck squads too, high RA and sometimes just eats a tank shell. Its not uncommon to see 2-3 blobed Raketens.

Kinda makes sense, as the Reketen literally launches Schreck rockets.

Pershing do have good AI dmg, but its armor(270) is actually less than vet2 panther.
Too sad... it needs to have at least 300 (same as tiger) IMO...

all panther veterancy is useful, Pershing veterancy is a sign that they don't know what they want it to do. Like hell I'd ever drive it into a Pak line with fausts to "grenade throw". Oh wow it accelerates 30% faster? That'll help out breaching the line with the armor it doesn't have.

Vet 3 is great it ups its dps. Other then that yea it's basically a Tiger tank with it's lethality.

Stupid question, why do people think pak 40 is best ATG?? I mean isn't USF m1 57mm better???

No, thats what axis fan boys say to keep everyones eyes off the Pak40.

The pak40 is a beautiful, long, sexy strong boi that can stun and penetrate basically everything on the field. The 57mm needs munitions to make it useable and i HATE the design of making units have to pay munitions everytime the unit needs to actually do its job. The muni dump 2x 57mm makes over the course of a game is insane.

No, thats what axis fan boys say to keep everyones eyes off the Pak40.

The pak40 is a beautiful, long, sexy strong boi that can stun and penetrate basically everything on the field. The 57mm needs munitions to make it useable and i HATE the design of making units have to pay munitions everytime the unit needs to actually do its job. The muni dump 2x 57mm makes over the course of a game is insane.

The Pak40 has the same penetration of the Pounder and about the same as the Zis
You don't need to spend munitions with anything but heavy tanks to use hvap. In a meta where medium tanks are far more frequent, spending 30 munition for when an heavy tank happens to show up by late game is far from expensive, especially with how good the 57mm becomes.

The Pak40 has the same penetration of the Pounder and about the same as the Zis
You don't need to spend munitions with anything but heavy tanks to use hvap. In a meta where medium tanks are far more frequent, spending 30 munition for when an heavy tank happens to show up by late game is far from expensive, especially with how good the 57mm becomes.

The kicker is Axis armor is normally much higher than Allied, so the Pak (which the 6lber was cloned from) doesn't bounce, while allied AT does. Its a great consistent tank slayer. The stun is basically Tulip rockets with a super long activation time, pretty good icing on the cake.

The Pak40 has the same penetration of the Pounder and about the same as the Zis

With incredible skill that stuns enemy tank. And don't forget that almost all (except for some heavy tank from Soviet) allies tank armor is lower than axis. Even churchil(240) has only 6 higher than p4(234).

You don't need to spend munitions with anything but heavy tanks to use hvap.

As I've mentioned earlier, 57 only has 55% chance of penetrating even p4. 45% to panther. I don't know about you, but I'd not be happy with 55% chance of dealing dmg. with AT.

I don't think the RAK is as bad as some people make it out to be. I notice it being too slow to fire sometimes but it's only a little worse that other AT guns. I'm not a big fan of the retreat. I'd much rather have a reverse with it (or wish I could just get a Pak 40 instead).

The 57 is okay in 2v2 or less, and maybe some 3v3 maps. They end up decrewed in 4's so much that they're nearly useless, plus they turn into huge ammo sinks. If you're not floating ammo, they're not very good. There's a reason why you see ranger/zook blobs in 4v4's. The worst thing about the 57 is that if you lose it to an Axis player, the thing becomes godly because they don't have to use the ammo to pen tanks, and the rate of fire makes it terrible to play against as USF.

I'm not sure why this thread got started. The Pak 40, ZIS, and 6 pounder are all clearly better.

Snip

The reason for rage is a 3 rak blob is effectively a schreck blob. Pop a shot, try for 2, then retreat at the first sight of pain. Its not necessary good, just incredibly aggravating.

Its not a great AT gun.

The 57 is fantastic for its price.
Look at it this way:
Say you had grens. 240mp squad that ain't shit compared to 280mp squads. No imagine they had an ability called "meth chocolate" that made em into obers for a while.
You then have all the advantages of cheap grens, but the ferocity of obers when you need it.
As is the 57mm
Its 50mp cheaper than other at guns, but with only 30 mu when you need it it will shot faster, further and with more pen.

Alternatively double AT gun-often regarded as the fuck you of choice for fighting tanks. For many, it will set you back 640mp. For USF it'll only cost you 540mp and for the cost of a BAR you will have the best chance of any faction for securing that kill! You will out range, or pen and out reload the competition! While saving 100mp to put towards your already powerful infantry game.

This is the way MORE things should be, performance spikes at the cost of economy make for far more dynamic play. It's really too bad that weapon upgrades are as they are - specifically designed to suck as much dynamic out of the game ass possible...

The 57 is fantastic for its price.
Look at it this way:
Say you had grens. 240mp squad that ain't shit compared to 280mp squads. No imagine they had an ability called "meth chocolate" that made em into obers for a while.
You then have all the advantages of cheap grens, but the ferocity of obers when you need it.
As is the 57mm
Its 50mp cheaper than other at guns, but with only 30 mu when you need it it will shot faster, further and with more pen.

Alternatively double AT gun-often regarded as the fuck you of choice for fighting tanks. For many, it will set you back 640mp. For USF it'll only cost you 540mp and for the cost of a BAR you will have the best chance of any faction for securing that kill! You will out range, or pen and out reload the competition! While saving 100mp to put towards your already powerful infantry game.

This is the way MORE things should be, performance spikes at the cost of economy make for far more dynamic play. It's really too bad that weapon upgrades are as they are - specifically designed to suck as much dynamic out of the game ass possible...

though i agree in principle, the price you pay is quite a bit higher if you want to make use of both the higher pen and greater range/sight at the same time. that's 60 mun per activation of the take aim + AP sabot combo for one AT gun... and more often than not you'll have two working in tandem, meaning you'll burn through 120 mun in a blink of an eye. that's pretty significant and only ever sustainable if you forgo other mun-heavy abilities or weapon upgrades.

The 57 is fantastic for its price.
Look at it this way:
Say you had grens. 240mp squad that ain't shit compared to 280mp squads. No imagine they had an ability called "meth chocolate" that made em into obers for a while.
You then have all the advantages of cheap grens, but the ferocity of obers when you need it.
As is the 57mm
Its 50mp cheaper than other at guns, but with only 30 mu when you need it it will shot faster, further and with more pen.

Alternatively double AT gun-often regarded as the fuck you of choice for fighting tanks. For many, it will set you back 640mp. For USF it'll only cost you 540mp and for the cost of a BAR you will have the best chance of any faction for securing that kill! You will out range, or pen and out reload the competition! While saving 100mp to put towards your already powerful infantry game.

This is the way MORE things should be, performance spikes at the cost of economy make for far more dynamic play. It's really too bad that weapon upgrades are as they are - specifically designed to suck as much dynamic out of the game ass possible...

The 57mm is an ATG that is 50 MP cheaper and needs at least 30 mun to perform slightly better to similar at best compared to other ATGs. It is not that bad, but 30 mun times however often you use it is not necessarily worth the 50 MP. And the higher ROF is lost at veterancy compared to other ATGs, often already at vet2. At this point you basically pay mun to get the same ATG as the other factions (with a tiny bit more pen if you pay the mun and way less pen if you don't).
The resource argument works in reverse too. For only 100 MP that I need to invest more I can get reliable AT from the very first shot and save the mun for mines, grenades, offmaps etc.

I am not saying the 57mm is a bad ATG, but the plus sides it has certainly has a lot of downsides as well.

i agree with your last part though, in the case of ATGs this would require a complete rework of how deadly tanks are. With the current effectiveness of them, ATGs must counter them quickly and reliably.

No imagine they had an ability called "meth chocolate" that made em into obers for a while.

Kek

Its 50mp cheaper than other at guns, but with only 30 mu when you need it it will shot faster, further and with more pen.

Too bad that's a wrong assessment rending all your comparaison ridiculously stupid.


Anyway, M1 is trash the moment you realize that even dumping 30 or 60 munition it still bounce regularly on panthers and higher armored units.

M1 is the atgun you don't want but there nothing else available unless dumping 150 munition on rangers or waiting for the 145fuel jackson.

Too bad that's a wrong assessment rending all your comparaison ridiculously stupid.


Anyway, M1 is trash the moment you realize that even dumping 30 or 60 munition it still bounce regularly on panthers and higher armored units.

M1 is the atgun you don't want but there nothing else available unless dumping 150 munition on rangers or waiting for the 145fuel jackson.

What is this non-sense?

Anyway, M1 is trash the moment you realize that even dumping 30 or 60 munition it still bounce regularly on panthers and higher armored units.

M1 is the atgun you don't want but there nothing else available unless dumping 150 munition on rangers or waiting for the 145fuel jackson.

What??
It has the highest penetration of any AT unit, competes straight with Jackson and Firefly

What??
It has the highest penetration of any AT unit, competes straight with Jackson and Firefly

And all you have to do is constantly pump muni into it on a muni starved faction that needs 120 muni pers squad!

What??
It has the highest penetration of any AT unit, competes straight with Jackson and Firefly

To be fair though, the HVAP rounds give you about 3% better chance to penetrate a Panther/Brummbar than an equivalently vetted 6 pounder and about 6% compared to a ZiS. It's better, but overall not THAT much. Especially if you consider that a first shot might often be wasted during an enemy attack because the rounds are not popped yet and that without them you have a way way worse chance.

Again, at vet, the vanilla 57mm performs decently worse than other ATGs and about similar with HVAP rounds. Without vet, it performs worse without and better with HVAP.

Highest penetration vs highest armor does already mean shit as argumentation.
Now highest penetration requiring 30 munitions each minute vs highest armor that still bounce regularly means trash. You spend 30 minutions for nothing.

M1 Atgun is great only vs USF because you don't need to worry about penetration. Once you have to fight OKW pz4 level of armor and bigger cats, your atgun is just a trash unit that requires you to dump 30 munitions in it to still see it not penetrating 1 shot every 3.