This is a petition for all 2v2 and bigger game modes. Playing as OST it is not that big of a deal since your mortar can just retreat. However, when playing as OKW against SOV team weapon play, you are completely helpless since the opponent just pops flares, detects your Support Guns and drops incendiary on them to erase them from existance before you can even react.
Also self spotting mortars early game, are just as counter-intuitive as Elephant self spotting late game. (Which is finally getting gutted.)
Since this is a time that the flare cancer is finally getting looked into, maybe this also passes.
Petition to Nerf/Remove Soviet Mortar Flare
25 Apr 2021, 07:32 AM
#1
Posts: 556
Grens are finally good.
25 Apr 2021, 07:51 AM
#2
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
One could start by moving the ability to back to vet 1.
25 Apr 2021, 08:10 AM
#3
Posts: 359
It costs muni to use and you can simply counter it by moving out of the way. Alternately you can go for the muni points to starve the Soviet player from munis. You can activate counter-barrage on your mortars to counter barrage the spotting mortar.
Incendiary does not come from the soviet mortar but a call-in. If they're spending so much muni to get rid of your support weapons then you should retreat and at least keep your weapons for another fight.
Doesn't really feel like there's anything broken about it. This is a counter to MG42s so the player doesn't run into an MG42 blindly. You have your own methods of dealing with it.
Incendiary does not come from the soviet mortar but a call-in. If they're spending so much muni to get rid of your support weapons then you should retreat and at least keep your weapons for another fight.
Doesn't really feel like there's anything broken about it. This is a counter to MG42s so the player doesn't run into an MG42 blindly. You have your own methods of dealing with it.
25 Apr 2021, 08:35 AM
#4
Posts: 176
I only find that Allies have so many way to scout/recon.
Soviet:
Mortar with flare
sniper with flare
M3
T70
Su85 with focus sight
USF:
M20
Major recon plane
I dont play UK so I dont know
Ost:
Pion
222
Okw:
Kubel
Infrared HT
Talking about indirect sight as flare and recon plane. Original InfraredHT was too op though
Soviet:
Mortar with flare
sniper with flare
M3
T70
Su85 with focus sight
USF:
M20
Major recon plane
I dont play UK so I dont know
Ost:
Pion
222
Okw:
Kubel
Infrared HT
Talking about indirect sight as flare and recon plane. Original InfraredHT was too op though
25 Apr 2021, 10:15 AM
#5
Posts: 556
It costs muni to use and you can simply counter it by moving out of the way. Alternately you can go for the muni points to starve the Soviet player from munis. You can activate counter-barrage on your mortars to counter barrage the spotting mortar.
And we know how munition friendly soviet early-mid game is. And If you haven't noticed, I said it is not that big of a deal (yet still cancer to manually fight against an automatic thing) as OST. I said as OKW it is really frustrating especially when that is combined with Maxim walls.
Incendiary does not come from the soviet mortar but a call-in. If they're spending so much muni to get rid of your support weapons then you should retreat and at least keep your weapons for another fight.
As I said, since OKW support guns (to counter their mortar) don't have retreat button, they can not escape from it. Same with OST anti-tank guns.
Doesn't really feel like there's anything broken about it. This is a counter to MG42s so the player doesn't run into an MG42 blindly. You have your own methods of dealing with it.
And finally, all flares are broken and un-counterable, this is not an exception.
Grens are finally good.
25 Apr 2021, 10:34 AM
#6
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
i think mortar flares, as most of the other flares bound to a specific unit (e.g. PF, soviet sniper, rifle comp flares) are fine. they cost a bit of munitions and can only reveal pieces of the map that are within activation range (i.e. not completely 'uncounterable').
it's certainly debatable if they are too cheap, have too much range or reveal a too great part of the map for too long, but this could easily be tweaked. outright removing soviet mortar flares only (i guess?), however, would be a bad move and severely limit its utility.
it's certainly debatable if they are too cheap, have too much range or reveal a too great part of the map for too long, but this could easily be tweaked. outright removing soviet mortar flares only (i guess?), however, would be a bad move and severely limit its utility.
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25 Apr 2021, 10:34 AM
#7
Posts: 1794
i been campaigning to cut all flare illumination times by 25-30% at least.
right now it illuminates big area and you cant really reposition until the drop ends.
right now it illuminates big area and you cant really reposition until the drop ends.
25 Apr 2021, 13:51 PM
#8
Posts: 1289
Please people the mortar costs 40 muni to deploy, it gives vision for a few seconds. Its hardly game breaking.
If you lack the ability to see the flare or are to lazy to move your units its on you.
This is just endless ranting vs soviets, if they have anything that works that other factions dont do better its a big no no you cant have that.
Its one of the few things when vs soviets you need to take into account. That and heavy doctrine depancy, the nerfed zis barrage in absence of nades, nerfed t70, nerfed ram. And now soon to be nerfed flares and su85 focused sight/tracking.
But then again whats one more nerf, soviets cant be nerfed enough apperantly.
If you lack the ability to see the flare or are to lazy to move your units its on you.
This is just endless ranting vs soviets, if they have anything that works that other factions dont do better its a big no no you cant have that.
Its one of the few things when vs soviets you need to take into account. That and heavy doctrine depancy, the nerfed zis barrage in absence of nades, nerfed t70, nerfed ram. And now soon to be nerfed flares and su85 focused sight/tracking.
But then again whats one more nerf, soviets cant be nerfed enough apperantly.
25 Apr 2021, 14:02 PM
#9
Posts: 163
Please people the mortar costs 40 muni to deploy, it gives vision for a few seconds. Its hardly game breaking.
If you lack the ability to see the flare or are to lazy to move your units its on you.
This is just endless ranting vs soviets, if they have anything that works that other factions dont do better its a big no no you cant have that.
Its one of the few things when vs soviets you need to take into account. That and heavy doctrine depancy, the nerfed zis barrage in absence of nades, nerfed t70, nerfed ram. And now soon to be nerfed flares and su85 focused sight/tracking.
But then again whats one more nerf, soviets cant be nerfed enough apperantly.
soviet op thats why needs nerfs
25 Apr 2021, 14:05 PM
#10
Posts: 5279
Flares tied to units is fine imo because they require units that have upkeep and need positioning. It's not on demand nor is it unexpected (it'll almost always simply illuminate an area of the front instead of a rear line) using units to scout is fair.
#stalinwept
25 Apr 2021, 15:11 PM
#11
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Unit flares are fine for the most part. Maybe some could do with some tweaks towards range and linger time, but overall they are okay.
I have no strong feelings about the Soviet mortar flare though.
I have no strong feelings about the Soviet mortar flare though.
25 Apr 2021, 15:29 PM
#12
Posts: 281
One thing that should be changed about mortar flares is that they count as an enemy unit. I had a game vs jibber recently where his own sector arty tried to evaporates a mortar flare and destroyed more of his own stuff than mine in the progress
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25 Apr 2021, 15:41 PM
#13
Posts: 1289
One thing that should be changed about mortar flares is that they count as an enemy unit. I had a game vs jibber recently where his own sector arty tried to evaporates a mortar flare and destroyed more of his own stuff than mine in the progress
Yeah stuff like that should be fixed.
25 Apr 2021, 16:17 PM
#14
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Please people the mortar costs 40 muni to deploy, it gives vision for a few seconds. ...
30 mu
25 Apr 2021, 16:50 PM
#15
Posts: 1289
30 mu
I remember it costing 40 muni. But i'm probably wrong.
25 Apr 2021, 17:35 PM
#16
Posts: 5279
Unit flares are fine for the most part. Maybe some could do with some tweaks towards range and linger time, but overall they are okay.
I have no strong feelings about the Soviet mortar flare though.
mortar flare could probably find itself behind vet again imo, its a pretty strong ability.
#stalinwept
25 Apr 2021, 18:20 PM
#17
Posts: 1954
Unit flares are fine for the most part. Maybe some could do with some tweaks towards range and linger time, but overall they are okay.
I have no strong feelings about the Soviet mortar flare though.
The balance team did a decent job with both Soviet flares. The 120mm should be locked behind vet 1 (or else it would vet too fast and be too good) and the 82mm is okay at vet 0. The 82mm often loses to the Ost mortar but flare seems to even it out. It doesn't bother me as much as the UKF entirefrontlineflare or the OKW arty flare because the mortar doesn't have the range to launch it past the front lines, so you always see the flare when microing your units and can respond to it.
25 Apr 2021, 19:30 PM
#18
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The balance team did a decent job with both Soviet flares. The 120mm should be locked behind vet 1 (or else it would vet too fast and be too good) and the 82mm is okay at vet 0. The 82mm often loses to the Ost mortar but flare seems to even it out. It doesn't bother me as much as the UKF entirefrontlineflare or the OKW arty flare because the mortar doesn't have the range to launch it past the front lines, so you always see the flare when microing your units and can respond to it.
120mm flare is being replaced by delay fuse munition in the preview.
25 Apr 2021, 20:06 PM
#19
Posts: 1954
120mm flare is being replaced by delay fuse munition in the preview.
Didn't notice that, but okay. The fuse delay will help punish aggressive truck placement, at a little bit of a loss of utility.
25 Apr 2021, 23:40 PM
#20
Posts: 5279
Didn't notice that, but okay. The fuse delay will help punish aggressive truck placement, at a little bit of a loss of utility.
Good change tho imo. The best designed doctrinal units work alongside stock ones instead of just replacing them outright.
#stalinwept
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