Buff for 5 man grens

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:27 PMjagd wölfe

The problem is that Grenadiers focus their dps output around one model, 5 men lmg grenadiers would risk being op

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:28 PMJilet

What is the problem with having an upgrade that comes late but is mutually exclusive with the LMG then ?

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:30 PMjagd wölfe

That nobody would ever use it. Why would you ever cripple yourself by losing so much firepower?

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:33 PMJilet

Why not give the option to do it ? "Nobody will use it" is a bad statement. I would personally stick with 1-2 of my Grens with LMGs and keep the last two or later replacements for wiped squads with the upgrade. There is no justification of keeping it as another 2CP upgrade. Just make it locked behind 3rd Tier and we have ourselves something unique and late game focused.

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:42 PMjagd wölfe

Ok, let me get this
VSL adds another man, a weapon cooldown bonus and a volksgrenadier stg.
Nobody uses it because it's trash, and you want an upgrade that adds a 5th man... so that you can replace lmg grenadiers with grenadiers with an extra model... in late game
Is that right?

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:30 PMjagd wölfe

That nobody would ever use it. Why would you ever cripple yourself by losing so much firepower?

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:47 PMKatitof

Is that a rhetorical question or you seek an actual explanation from soviet players who use 7 man cons over SVT cons?

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:33 PMJilet

Why not give the option to do it ? "Nobody will use it" is a bad statement. I would personally stick with 1-2 of my Grens with LMGs and keep the last two or later replacements for wiped squads with the upgrade. There is no justification of keeping it as another 2CP upgrade. Just make it locked behind 3rd Tier and we have ourselves something unique and late game focused.

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:59 PMJPA32

Fundamentally a late game upgrade has to be incredibly powerful in some form because it's accessible for a shorter amount of time than standard upgrades thus providing less long term value. an example late game 5 man Grenadier upgrade would step on the toes of the existing LMG upgrade (Or any of the current existing upgrades for Grens depending on it's intention) which would cause it to either be overshadowed in it's role by a current upgrade, or completely transcend it and all others by being too powerful forcing you to wait for it with nearly no in-between which would be bad design.

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:59 PMJPA32

That being said, current Gren design has it's own balancing issues with basically every usable doctrine at the moment being something that modifies or replaces Grens which is a symptom of a greater problem with the squad on a fundamental level.

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 20:33 PMJilet

We don't see such issues with SVTs or PPSh's tho do we ?

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:23 PMoootto92

With the bullshit 7man upgrade existing I see no reason as to why Ostheer couldn't have the old 5men gren upgrade behind the T4 that can beat double bar RM. I mean 7men grens arrive so late that its ok that they beat g43gren cqc 100% of the time. With same idiotic logic of giving grens late game upgrade option instead of LMGs we could easily justify same broken bullshit of having good field presence and tools early but still super good scalability to late game. Same could be applied for OKW giving volks option to get LMG instead of STGs.

We could have nice things but unfortunately axis lost the war so they do not get the 7men treatment for late game.

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 20:44 PMProtos Angelus

they would probably be OP as you would have a very strong combined arms force. But right now, comparing units between factions directly is idiotic at best

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:45 PMJilet

I'm saying a revised model of this could be made to work and even 5 man grens would be just better than the current iteration of VSL just because they could at least alpha strike at times with their 16 damage rifles.

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 17:48 PMSander93

You mean where they get an extra model and improved firepower?

Jump back to quoted post18 Apr 2021, 02:26 AMthedarkarmadillo

16 damage for an alpha strike? That's the thing that got deliberately removed off of more expensive tommies isn't it? I'm 160% sure it is.

The value of the 5 man is taking your squishy 4 man squad and making is 25% more durable. That is the primary function. If you want firepower to ou take the lmh42 as it's primary function is to offset the squishy. Both upgrades have their uses and neither outright replaces the other this is an example of a good upgrade.

Jump back to quoted post18 Apr 2021, 08:00 AMLMAO

vsl makes grens volks and we all know how good volks is and without sandbags

Jump back to quoted post18 Apr 2021, 07:17 AMMr Carmine

100% correct. The value for vsl is and should be durability and field presence not brute forcing at every range vs more expensive inf who dont have pgrens or obers and good mg's backing them up.

Jump back to quoted post18 Apr 2021, 07:17 AMMr Carmine

Now just tommies need a simaler aproach. Go bolster and takes 1 weapon slot or stay 4 men with two slots.
Updated the post.

Jump back to quoted post18 Apr 2021, 13:19 PMJilet

Every faction other than SOV have decent MGs. MG-42 being unparalleled is nothing but a myth nowadays.

Every other faction have their options to face the Panzergrenadier and the role of infantry being that split is unique to OST. (Which is good no complaints here)

Ober is not an OST unit you know.




British infantry sections were problematic because they could go bolster super early (0.5-1 CP timing) and smash your infantry very early on with alpha strikes. I think you guys are really not understanding the difference between the impacts of a minute 1 alpha strike and an alpha strike at 25 minutes.