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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

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17 Apr 2021, 17:40 PM
#401
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

...
TL;DR G43 was nerfed years ago for being too powerful, but is now too weak due to power creep, so partially revert part of the nerf and allow the use of the G43 and MG 42 at the same time again.
....]

That would be a terrible idea because you have a squad with good DPS are all range.

A simply solution at this point would be to replace the upgrade with a 5 men squad doctrinal squad.
17 Apr 2021, 23:03 PM
#402
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 17:40 PMVipper
That would be a terrible idea because you have a squad with good DPS are all range.

Fallschirmjagers.


jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 17:40 PMVipper
A simply solution at this point would be to replace the upgrade with a 5 men squad doctrinal squad.

That's just the Jaeger Command Squad.
18 Apr 2021, 02:29 AM
#403
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279


Fallschirmjagers.
cost a hell of a lot more than grens do and are STILL poorly designed.
18 Apr 2021, 03:57 AM
#404
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928



True, it's not the best design. But JLI is a tricky thing to rebalance without buffing the shit out of it to make up for the huge power creep over the years. JLI is a relic from an era where Grenadiers faced Conscripts that had no upgrades, and now they face Riflemen and Tommies that can almost overpower JLI Grens out the door and only get substantially stronger. The other suggestion of granting bonuses against cover is not a good solution because it would require a rebalance of Panzergrenadier G43 and Panzerfusilier G43 to maintain consistency.
18 Apr 2021, 05:40 AM
#405
avatar of Kyle

Posts: 322

Please lower the 251 MOP Flare to 30 muni, make it the same range and visibility as Soviet Mortar's Flare.

Right now 50 is too much, thank you for consider this.
18 Apr 2021, 07:07 AM
#406
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1


Fallschirmjagers.

Fall are not greatly designed either but their are allot differences:
They are not mainline infatry
They do not have snares
They DPS is not concentrated so they lose allot of DPS when they lose a model
....



That's just the Jaeger Command Squad.

Yes that would the base but of course it would have to be toned and not limited to one.

The unit is weird to begin with since it does not really have any abilities that fit a "command" unit and the limitation of 1 has more to with power level than its abilities.
18 Apr 2021, 07:12 AM
#407
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660


Fallschirmjagers.


They are shit at all ranges yes. Build Obersoldaten
18 Apr 2021, 07:31 AM
#408
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2021, 07:07 AMVipper
Yes that would the base but of course it would have to be toned and not limited to one.

The unit is weird to begin with since it does not really have any abilities that fit a "command" unit and the limitation of 1 has more to with power level than its abilities.


I feel like you're trying to sneak G43 VSL Grens back in by advocating that JLI as an alternate unit that happens to be extremely similar to G43 VSL Grens.
18 Apr 2021, 07:49 AM
#409
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



I feel like you're trying to sneak G43 VSL Grens back in by advocating that JLI as an alternate unit that happens to be extremely similar to G43 VSL Grens.

Then do not trust your feelings.(you probably read too much katitof)

There is nothing common with an upgrade to a mainline infantry and a doctrinal unit.

In addition part of the reason VSL grenadier where good was the good vet bonuses vanilla grenadier have to get stay relevant in the game. That would not be an issue with separate doctrinal unit.

The unit would not have DPS anywhere near g43/LMG grenadiers.
18 Apr 2021, 14:47 PM
#410
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



They are the shit at all ranges yes.

Fixed that for ya
19 Apr 2021, 20:23 PM
#411
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 309

Falls are bad at all ranges? What? I thought they are strong at all ranges as that is their job as elite infantry? Unless you are confusing them with the falls who are the retinue for the new Luftwaffe Officer because those Falls use MP40s and not kar98s/FG42s

__

Also the new aesthetic designs for the Wehrmacht and Soviet commanders look very good! Nice work devs!

I still think the Panzer 4 Commander tank needs further adjustments but it is good they finally decided on which ability they want it to have. It definitely shouldn't have have both abilities haha. I preferred artillery barrage but I am not the most skilled player and I could see why it could be argued that it is just too powerful of an ability for it to have. Also mark target is still a great ability, does it work on infantry units as well then, not just vehicles?

Really hoping for armour skirts for the P4 Command Tank. I really think they could use it due to no longer having blitzkrieg which I often need for my command tank to escape danger, having low defenses in general, and having a shared cooldown on smoke abilties. Also when people see your command tank it is a high priority kill target *crossing fingers they give it armour skirts* :wub:
19 Apr 2021, 20:30 PM
#412
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 179



They are shit at all ranges yes. Build Obersoldaten


Shit like this is why nothing posted here gets taken seriously.
19 Apr 2021, 20:34 PM
#413
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 309



Shit like this is why nothing posted here gets taken seriously.


He has to be trolling because unlike the steam forums I am quite sure the devs actually read what people have to say on coh2.org. Sadly there are still trolls on forums anywhere you go

I do agree with them that Obersoldaten are great infantry, but that has nothing to do with Fallschirmjager which are most certainly high quality soldiers
19 Apr 2021, 20:40 PM
#414
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

Could the Artillery officer get a buff he is kind of weak.

I would like to see the pistol replaced by a stg44 at vet1. This way he isn’t an extreme power spike when first called in but will still have combat power later.
Also, maybe the mortar barrage could be moved to vet0 with less shells and then gain back those lost shells at vet1

StuG E
Really good in team games if gotten in a pair at vet 3, the vet 3 reload is crazy fast, but it’s useless in any other situation
I really think the vet3 reload should be reduced, but to make it so you can potentially get it as your first vehicle direct fire toggle would be necessary so it can fend off AEC/Stuart/T70


This patch feels like ostheer’s last chance to get a elite long range squad
Double mg42 Panzergrenadier upgrade would open up some cool strategies I think. And be no more of a tuning problem than making the new raid section balanced.
19 Apr 2021, 20:54 PM
#415
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 309

I do think an lmg upgrade for panzer grenadiers is a cool idea, I mean this would be more historically accurate as well. However I am guessing they do not have this upgrade for balance reasons. Maybe if they specifically added this upgrade to a doctrine so it's not a stock upgrade? And I do have to say, if you can find a dropped lmg with a panzer gren squad it's quite the firepower boost
Pip
19 Apr 2021, 21:00 PM
#416
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 20:54 PMLewka
I do think an lmg upgrade for panzer grenadiers is a cool idea, I mean this would be more historically accurate as well. However I am guessing they do not have this upgrade for balance reasons. Maybe if they specifically added this upgrade to a doctrine so it's not a stock upgrade? And I do have to say, if you can find a dropped lmg with a panzer gren squad it's quite the firepower boost


The squad isnt really intended for long range fighting, that's what Grenadiers are for. It's already a little bit concerning that they have the G43 upgrade, which a pretty silly damage profile at long range (Despite their G43s being a "close range" weapon).

Pgrens want to be mobile, if you see a dropped LMG you want to be giving that to Grens, not to your Pgrens. It's kind of a waste of the squad.
19 Apr 2021, 21:07 PM
#417
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 309

Oh yeah double lmgs on grenadier squads is great! Also it really confuses me on whether they want the g43 to be a close or long range weapon when the description for it varies from unit to unit from saying it's good at close range, to good at long range, to increasing site range, ect.
19 Apr 2021, 21:08 PM
#418
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 21:07 PMLewka
Oh yeah double lmgs on grenadier squads is great! Also it really confuses me on whether they want the g43 to be a close or long range weapon when the description for it varies from unit to unit from saying it's good at close range, to good at long range, to increasing site range, ect.

It performs consistently for all the units that have it.

One - sniper.
More then one - mid range weapon with insane fotm accuracy.
Pip
19 Apr 2021, 21:13 PM
#419
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 21:08 PMKatitof

It performs consistently for all the units that have it.

One - sniper.
More then one - mid range weapon with insane fotm accuracy.


So two (Three, the JLI and Sniper variants are still very different despite both being "Sniper" rifles) totally different types of weapon depending on how many you happen to be holding.

This really isnt what I'd call "consistent", this is a cope.
19 Apr 2021, 21:14 PM
#420
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 309

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 21:08 PMKatitof

It performs consistently for all the units that have it.

One - sniper.
More then one - mid range weapon with insane fotm accuracy.


That's good to know, what throws me off is the descriptions themselves because they're different for almost every infantry squad that can upgrade to them, but as far as I was aware the g43s were generally meant to do the same thing for all units that upgrade to the weapon
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