Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback

Core changes are just probably not gonna happen like you're asking for sadly.

Yup. We are attempting to fix a symptom and not the root cause.

Still hold the belief that USF Commanders can be made into elements that can boost USF mid to late game performance.

In regards to late game punch a possible solution is veterancy bonuses such as increased HP to the Sherman or other vehicles once they hit vet 2 or 3. The Sherman Dozer from Armor company at VET 2 gets more HP if remember correctly.

The issue is just like vCOH, axis late game vetted units make the battlefield extremely lethal and unforgiving for USF players and the lack of get out of jail abilities like blitzkrieg, smoke drops, smoke screens just make it more difficult for vehicles to survive against AT that constantly PENs their armor.

However HP nerf is unwarranted. Its 110 fuel, why should it die so quick? What 110 Fuel unit dies in 2 shots, tell me?

Eh, Stuka is 100 fuel and dies in 1 shot. So you still get double the durability (and immunity to small arms) for a measly 10 extra fuel.

Eh, Stuka is 100 fuel and dies in 1 shot. So you still get double the durability (and immunity to small arms) for a measly 10 extra fuel.

Stuka has perfect accuracy at max range though. Calliope needs to close to get wipes and force retreats compared to the relative safety of the Stuka.

I definitely think there is some frustration within the USF playerbase at the moment about the the last patch and what we see coming this patch. The buffs feel like things no one really asked for while the nerfs hurt. For example, I knew the nerfs to Rifle Nades, Mechanized, and IR Paths was coming, but very few of the buffs really feel exciting or interesting, and many of them are extremely token changes to otherwise dead units. The faction is still doing well enough in 1v1 that I don't expect this course to change though, but the complete disinterest in opening up more docs for team game play is disheartening.

This. This all day.

This commander patch is going to leave the USF with no additional competitive commanders for team games, and generally feels like USF will end up being less competitive than it is now. Mechanized was the only commander with changed abilities. It was nerfed by removing dozer Shermans for the nonsensical reason that 76mm Shermans are too good, which they're not.

why give back rifleman Flamer is a good idea:
- Rifle no longer had superman stat at vet 3, smoke nade => they couldn't keep charging MG, unit in cover like old time.
- No vet 1 call in.
- M8 scott, Howie, .50 cal nerfed > no more snowball.

3. Lackluster performance against infantry.

I'm sorry, but I simply have to disagree with you here.

2. Barely wins against a panther on a one v one.

That is literally the purpose of the Panther. It's meant to brawl in 1v1s against other tanks, that's why it has poor fire rate, high penetration, and high health, but less armor than most Allied "heavy" tanks. The Panther will (obviously) destroy the Churchill, rekt an IS-2 pretty hard even if it loses, and rekt the Pershing hard even if it loses too. The Panther is actually pretty bad at countering medium tank swarms, it only appears to be good at countering medium tanks because Allied mediums have shit penetration. But if you get 2 good premium mediums (E8, Comet, T34/85, maybe even the 76mm Sherman?), it'll lose the fight.

Also, give the Pershing a self-repair ability, maybe even a price reduction. Those are the only buffs it needs, the combat performance of the tank itself is fine.

20:15. If 1st shot penned maybe I could've kamikaze chased it down, but Calliope went nope.

Calliope needs armor nerf. Really upsetting when PIV-J cannot penetrate.

However HP nerf is unwarranted. Its 110 fuel, why should it die so quick? What 110 Fuel unit dies in 2 shots, tell me?

Just make it cheaper, seriously. There's no good reason for an artillery unit that should be in the back line to be able to survive 3 hits. Either the unit should be tanky with a lackluster barrage like the Land Mattress barrage or it should be deadly in its current form while fragile.

However HP nerf is unwarranted. Its 110 fuel, why should it die so quick? What 110 Fuel unit dies in 2 shots, tell me?

Consider that the Stuka is 100 fuel and dies in a single shot.

It's more about the units' role rather than the price: Rocket artillery is expected to be in the backlines, such an unit being too tanky makes it unreasonably hard to deal with due to you necessarily having to dive for it (This is also coupled with the limited timeframe you have to perform your dive, in many cases: Properly microed Rocket arty fires, and then scuttles to an even safer position until it recharges).

I'm honestly of the opinion that the Calliope should die in a single shot, but I might agree that this should be accompanied by a price decrease.

Stuka had 100 fuel because it is tier unit. OKW can call them right away to dealing with support weapon team.
Calliop 110 fuel becausẻ of their durablity, instant call in and yet firepower.
nerf urability, firepower ( minimun range to 50 ) then put the fuel and popcap lower, around 90~95 fuel is good spot.

Not impressed with changes. The calipe change doesn't address issues axis players bring up. They can't get in the last shot? Nope, I don't see that. What I do see is masses of troops getting wiped, which is likely more frustrating than the health of the caliope. It's stupid slow, it can't escape.

The mortar halftrack, I just don't understand. I get that people felt the wp rounds were too good before. It got nerfed so hard that most of the people I use it on seem more annoyed that their vision is blocked, rather than the tiny bits of health they are losing. I'd rather the rounds be upped 10mu and be more effective at their job, than be useless and cheap. I think landing them somewhere between current and old would be fair.

240mm Barrage

First the ability is designed as area denial:

"We have increased the number of shells while decreasing the delay between shots to make this ability more potent at area denial. Damage has been modified to prevent instant kills on infantry while retaining high damage at the edges of the shell’s AOE."

Now are adding anti structure capability. This a step in the wrong direction.

In addition the ability cost only 25 munition more and gets 7 shell instead the 3 Gustav gets.

The ability also has extremely low friendly fire modifiers allowing troops to attack trough it.
Suggestions:

Remove lower scatter shot
Lower cost to 200
Swap with TOT.
Increase friendly damage

Infantry commander will get an ability commander more suited to theme, Armor commander will be able to counter static targets like Pak/LeFH

IR Pathfinder Barrage

The is available to early for its power level.
Suggestions:

Replace it with a mortar barrage similar to Ostheer officer move to vet 1.

M4A3 Sherman 105mm Dozer

The unit has no reason to be a call-in . Still compares unfavorable to 75mm Dozer
Suggestions:

keep the CP but make it build able from T4.
Change the auto to match other tanks:
Increase projectile speed/range to 40/AOE at 75mm HE rounds
keep barrage

Unit now is better vs heavily armor tank due to armor/deflection damage

M4A3 Sherman Calliope
Suggestions:
At this point one should consider putting a limit to caliope at 1(2?)

Mortar Half-Track WP Shells
Suggestions:
WP barrage is very powerful forces retreat and long healing time. Greatly increase CD on the ability

Pathfinders (All Variants)

The unit should be vulnerable to CQB while it should not be unit that is spammable. The is no indication for the critical kill property of the weapon

Suggestions:

Cost to 240
Carbines replaced by M1 units a different profile stronger long ranger weaker close
Critical kill now a timed ability

Rangers

The unit has has no reason for 3 weapon slot. The weapon change will also allow the unit to transition from AI to AT as the progress with getting an addition bazooka from 1-3 at the game progress.
Suggestions:

Reduce slots to 2
Elite bazookas now an upgrade and does not apply to rack weapons (or they can no longer get rack bazookas)

Rear Echelon Rifle Grenades

The ability is better suited for riflemen
Suggestions:

Ability moved to rifle company
Ability now available to riflemen instead

Rifle Company Advanced Infantry Gear

The ability overlap with assault engineer.
Suggestions:

Redesing the ability to provide M1C/ M9A1 weapon with improved properties
add assault engineers where needed

Just make it cheaper, seriously. There's no good reason for an artillery unit that should be in the back line to be able to survive 3 hits. Either the unit should be tanky with a lackluster barrage like the Land Mattress barrage or it should be deadly in its current form while fragile.

Either way you nerf its durability to other rocket arty level and bring its price and accesibility to the same level or you keep it durable and keep its price and accesibility for the late game only.

But we're never going to get that with a Balance team that nickpick single comment from player to tell them -No here you're wrong!.

There is a good post from IntotheRain but it seems more important for the balance team to answer the single comment on Calliope fuel price rather than engaging a discussion over USF balance on team game.

E8: alongside the current changes + armour to 240 and reload to 6.00s + price to 155 fuel (or leave reload to 6-6.6 but slightly buff AI cannon)
Why: Easier brawling, does not get penetrated so often from AT guns. USF gets a pricey late game tank for teamgames.

Pershing: Remove the 800hp + DMGRed and give muni ability similar to Soviet crew repair + buff armour to 300 or buff armour to 280 and very slightly buff AI cannon OR buff price since right now, nothing on Pershing justifies such a high price (+ it has a downright useless ability unless used against a snared KT)

Calliope: Revert the HP buff. Nerf agility (speed,accel,turn). That way it it still justified that for a doctrinal arty tank does not die in 2 hits and that dives get more successful if the calliope user has no defending units (100% penetration and hard to run away due to agility nerf). Remember, unlike stuka and werfer, Calliope also has 23 size so it's much easier to hit when moving in to dive (compared to 20)

IR path: Delay back to 5

Greyhound: Target size to 16. For it's timing, it's not really useful, at least this way, it won't get always hit and can possibly escape

Rifle granades: Revert changes. If those meme nades are really so OP, nerf something else, don't make it even more micro intensive and useless.


There are other good suggestions on this thread (if you ignore the general V's post that asks for further nerfs disguised as "buffs").
I really hope the balance team sees the error of their ways considering the "reworks" that really rework nothing and just buff already pointless upgrades with pointless buffs (RE flamer)

Eh, Stuka is 100 fuel and dies in 1 shot. So you still get double the durability (and immunity to small arms) for a measly 10 extra fuel.

Yes, measly 10 fuel and it also takes a doctrine pick.

The rifle nade nerf, I don't know where it is coming from that it was too strong, it was good in certain situations, but not strong and now the upgrade will be useless now unless the nade damage gets buffed a bit.

I think the pershing is fine as it is now, Iv already gave my comment about it.

What sticks out like a sore thumb is the combined arms nerf (course by mech co no doubt).

Some usf tanks suffer from wind down/up such as the jackson and pershing resulting into not getting their true reload bonus.

15% reload would translate into little value and in my perspective is a nerf to heavy calv.

Yes, measly 10 fuel and it also takes a doctrine pick.

An unit being doctrinal doesn't mean it needs to be /massively/ advantaged over similar nondoctrinal options.

The price is certainly up for debate, but excess survivability on an artillery unit is /not/ a good design decision.

An unit being doctrinal doesn't mean it needs to be /massively/ advantaged over similar nondoctrinal options.

The price is certainly up for debate, but excess survivability on an artillery unit is /not/ a good design decision.

exactly i mean okw ostwind is the same as osther and same for okw p4 in osther doctrine

[...]

these are some decent suggestions i'd say.

the current e8 buffs in the beta will surely give it a considerable boost vs mediums, but i'd argue that's not really an area it struggled with before. imho the lack of AI is what held the unit back the most, and the range increase won't help in that regard. whether it is by a slight increase in ROF, a bit better AoE or some AI skillshot, something should be done to get the e8's AI at least on par with that of the regular 76 mm. i'd probably rather keep the ROF as it is, though, as this wouldn't interfere with the AT performance of the gun.

the pershing is fine overall, especially when compared with other heavies, though i think all heavies except the kv-2 could use a slight price discount to make them more attractive choices. but if you'd really want to increase its AI i'd buff the MGs a bit as they're pretty inferior to those of its contemporaries.

not sure if the calliope deserves both an offensive as well as a survivability nerf at the same time. i think it should either retain 400 hp or the old minimum range... preferably the latter so it can still be used in shotgun mode but at an increased risk of losing it. if that proves to be too little risk for reward, maybe an incremental aim time increase at close range could be introduced so the opponent gets more time to counter it if fired point blank.
alternatively, the proposed mobility nerf would also work well instead of the hp reduction i guess.

I think the pershing is fine as it is now, Iv already gave my comment about it.

What sticks out like a sore thumb is the combined arms nerf (course by mech co no doubt).

Some usf tanks suffer from wind down/up such as the jackson and pershing resulting into not getting their true reload bonus.

15% reload would translate into little value and in my perspective is a nerf to heavy calv.

I agree. At -15%, the effective bonus of is as little as ~10% on certain vehicles like the Jackson. I don't think Combined Arms needed to be adjusted at all, but if it is going to, then the reload bonus should either be higher or it should be finetuned per vehicle (for those that have wind up and down) to have the same effective bonus for all.