Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback

Quality.

Only relic can add models to the game that are up to their standard for coh2.

Also voice lines.

There are plenty of modellers/animators who would be able to create something of equal quality to any of the models ingame, it's particularly easy in the case of vehicles, as they have a very definitive design.

VA work would not be a question of lack of quality, either. I can't see it being impossible to find VAs who would meet the level of quality displayed by the other VA work ingame.

The only issue would be paying these people, as finding anyone who would work for free would be far more difficult.

And for the record, never give riflemen smoke nades again.
That abuse was astronomical back in the day, especially on VPS
Made mgs totally useless.

Agreed. It's really not as though USF lack smoke in any regard, anyway.

The 105 is growing on me. I was in favor of a cost reduction originally, but adding the barrage actually helps the unit out a lot. (and USF docs without Calliope need all of the quality indirect they can possibly lay their hands on) I'd like to see some further refinement of it. The range is bugged, but I assume that will be fixed, and I'd love to see it get an extra shell or reduced scatter with vet.

I'm increasingly convinced the 240mm Barrage isn't salvageable. Even with a perfect first shot, it just doesn't have the impact you expect from a Barrage that expensive.

I'd push for it to be either replaced by another Arty Barrage, (like Mechanizeds old 155mm) or else an entirely new ability added. I'd love to see something like a USF version of the OKW Panzer Commander for example. Trade out the Arty Barrage and bonus vision for abilities like the WC51 Mark Target and Arty Barrage.

1. Greyhound CP buff

The M8 Greyhound appears too slow for a light vehicle. In the past, canister shots were so powerful that I think the timing of 4 points is a very good choice as a kind of suppression.
However, if you think about whether the M8 is a 4CP vehicle today, I don't think it is.
I want to make one suggestion. M8 call-in timing as a condition of 1cp instead of 4cp.

The Greyhound is close to a T-70 in terms of AI power. Its 4 CP timing is fine in 1v1. It needs that gate otherwise it would become too powerful. It was heavy meta before Mechanized took over. It's too bad that 4 CPs is too late for teamgames, but you can't buff its timing without potentially breaking it in 1v1. So there's not much to be done. Some units are simply only good in one mode.

I'm increasingly convinced the 240mm Barrage isn't salvageable. Even with a perfect first shot, it just doesn't have the impact you expect from a Barrage that expensive.

I'd push for it to be either replaced by another Arty Barrage, (like Mechanizeds old 155mm) or else an entirely new ability added. I'd love to see something like a USF version of the OKW Panzer Commander for example. Trade out the Arty Barrage and bonus vision for abilities like the WC51 Mark Target and Arty Barrage.

the 240mm barrage may not be a good offensive ability, but i think it works great as a defensive tool for area denial. a cost reduction may be justified, but otherwise i think it is fine as is.

the 240mm barrage may not be a good offensive ability, but i think it works great as a defensive tool for area denial. a cost reduction may be justified, but otherwise i think it is fine as is.

Compare it Gustav at 200 mu, it get 4 more shots....

One need to be careful with off map especially for faction with stock recon sweeps.

I personally would rather see the TOT (or 155) move to this commander.

the 240mm barrage may not be a good offensive ability, but i think it works great as a defensive tool for area denial. a cost reduction may be justified, but otherwise i think it is fine as is.

Why would I need that though? The value of an area denial tool is pretty limited, and extremely hard to justify at that price point. I'd rather have just about any other Arty Barrage over it, since the chance to wipe multiple squads is more relevant (and affordable) than an expensive, narrow area denial tool.

There are a million other possible late game choices for this slot, why spend time on something that isn't particularly good?

Why would I need that though? The value of an area denial tool is pretty limited, and extremely hard to justify at that price point. I'd rather have just about any other Arty Barrage over it, since the chance to wipe multiple squads is more relevant (and affordable) than an expensive, narrow area denial tool.

There are a million other possible late game choices for this slot, why spend time on something that isn't particularly good?

because it was design for that:

"240mm Artillery

We have increased the number of shells while decreasing the delay between shots to make this ability more potent at area denial. Damage has been modified to prevent instant kills on infantry while retaining high damage at the edges of the shell’s AOE."

The question is this designed suited for this commander? If it not it should be replaced by another ability instead of offering both areal denial and pin point accuracy.

The Greyhound is close to a T-70 in terms of AI power. Its 4 CP timing is fine in 1v1. It needs that gate otherwise it would become too powerful. It was heavy meta before Mechanized took over. It's too bad that 4 CPs is too late for teamgames, but you can't buff its timing without potentially breaking it in 1v1. So there's not much to be done. Some units are simply only good in one mode.

It was heavy meta before you nerf its AT power and relegate it to CP4. The doctrine was heavy meta with the pakhowi you already nerfed, cluster bomb timing you also nerfed some time ago and IR pathfinder you're nerfing right now.

The Greyhound is close to a T-70 in terms of AI power. Its 4 CP timing is fine in 1v1. It needs that gate otherwise it would become too powerful. It was heavy meta before Mechanized took over. It's too bad that 4 CPs is too late for teamgames, but you can't buff its timing without potentially breaking it in 1v1. So there's not much to be done. Some units are simply only good in one mode.

What is the problem of binding it to tech? Double officer or officer + tech. Buildable in HQ, you can further adjust timing by buildtime. It has pretty much the same timing as Stuart then and is the same across all modes.

What is the problem of binding it to tech?

Timing. Officer + tech comes way sooner than 4 CP in 1v1. You'd be able to get the Greyhound pretty much a whole CP earlier.

Why would I need that though? The value of an area denial tool is pretty limited, and extremely hard to justify at that price point. I'd rather have just about any other Arty Barrage over it, since the chance to wipe multiple squads is more relevant (and affordable) than an expensive, narrow area denial tool.

There are a million other possible late game choices for this slot, why spend time on something that isn't particularly good?

i won't argue that 200+ mun might be a bit pricey for 60ish seconds of area denial, but to say that locking down a vp or some other highly contested area (and occasionally even getting a free wipe in the process) is without any value couldn't be farther from truth. sure there are other more powerful options available, but with the proposed 1st shell buff in the beta the 240mm strike is actually quite usable even offensively.

Compare it Gustav at 200 mu, it get 4 more shots....

granted, but that doesn't mean railway arty couldn't be made a bit cheaper as well

granted, but that doesn't mean railway arty couldn't be made a bit cheaper as well

Compare it to stuka that has one salvo. (ok the ability has not flares but just add them if you have to.)

There should be cost efficient pin point abilities but that is all they should provided and they should be limited to specific commanders.

Making all off map able to take out static target with nearly 100% with low price when 3 faction have stock reckon sweeps is a great devaluation of on map static targets (truck/emplacements/Pak43/Lefh/ML20) and should be avoided.

the combined arms was trully gutted. for effectively 30 munitions cost reduction you lose half of the benefits it provides and further halves what remained. If point of this is to standardize it with things like fml or valiant assault its not really good, as combined arms requires more effort to make it work compared to other 2.

In regards to the conversation about the Rifle company and how riflemen should be receiving the benefits of the commander.

Many abilities could be given to rifles such as:

Construct field defenses

Line of sight bonus in cover (originally part of the I&R commander)

Flare

Defensive Stance (way back in the day)

LMGs from the weapon rack

Fire up

Flamer (probably a bad idea)

Covering fire (similar to CAV infantry)

Marksman training - enhance rifles ability to fight a long-range

Bazooka weapon specialization (similar to ranger's passive skill when equipped with zooks) probably not a good idea...

If you could give them an ability similar to the British ability that allows them to call in a light mortar strike on a targeted area

Could also make them able to camo in cover like axis infantry with ambush camo.

Just some thoughts, but the commander needs some type of off-map arty instead of the WP strike.

Timing. Officer + tech comes way sooner than 4 CP in 1v1. You'd be able to get the Greyhound pretty much a whole CP earlier.

It would come pretty much at the same timing as Luchs or Stuart. Since it would have to fight directly versus Luchs, which has same AI performance as Greyhound with 50.cal and since it looses to Luchs in its current state I don't see a problem. Where do you see a problem?

In regards to the conversation about the Rifle company and how riflemen should be receiving the benefits of the commander.

Many abilities could be given to rifles such as:

Construct field defenses

Line of sight bonus in cover (originally part of the I&R commander)

Flare

Defensive Stance (way back in the day)

LMGs from the weapon rack

Fire up

Flamer (probably a bad idea)

Covering fire (similar to CAV infantry)

Marksman training - enhance rifles ability to fight a long-range

Bazooka weapon specialization (similar to ranger's passive skill when equipped with zooks) probably not a good idea...

If you could give them an ability similar to the British ability that allows them to call in a light mortar strike on a targeted area

Could also make them able to camo in cover like axis infantry with ambush camo.

Just some thoughts, but the commander needs some type of off-map arty instead of the WP strike.

They already have field defenses in the commander.

And I agree either on the M1919A6 weapon rack or Marksman upgrade.

Maybe an M3 or M5 Halftrack would be nice as well, forward reinforcement since the ambulance is really squishy.

It would come pretty much at the same timing as Luchs or Stuart. Since it would have to fight directly versus Luchs, which has same AI performance as Greyhound with 50.cal and since it looses to Luchs in its current state I don't see a problem. Where do you see a problem?

It's better than the Luchs, particularly at chasing. And USF already has superior infantry, it really does not need an earlier AI vehicle. It would instantly dominate the 1v1 meta. The buffed M20 already does (again).

It's better than the Luchs, particularly at chasing. And USF already has superior infantry, it really does not need an earlier AI vehicle. It would instantly dominate the 1v1 meta. The buffed M20 already does (again).

So if it is really not possible to put it into an appropiate tech place, then you could buff its late game performance to give players a reason to take this company in multiplayer. Some exmaples:

- good recon ability that is locked by T4 or vet
- a rebuffed canister shot that is locked by T4 or vet
- combat upgrade locked by T4
- something like a forward spawn basis locked by T4
- ...

I do think a Greyhound with some late game functionallity plus the option to call Reserve Paras without howitzer would do a lot already to have a selling point in multiplayer. The reserve Paras and IR Pathfinders are quite good already, but not worth it on their own. Especially because Paras are bound to howitzer always, resulting in a huge munition drain for upgraded Reserve Paras. The company is kind of a munition sink.

So I wanted to share a couple ideas here

For the first one this is my suggestion to further improve Rifle Company. The M3 Assault Halftrack would fit very well both thematically and also help push a more aggressive playstyle with Riflemen. It would be an excellent frontline source of healing, reinforcements, and some extra firepower. I think overall it would be a great addition to the commander without being to massive a shake up. The space is made by just bundling all the riflemen stuff into a single trait that can be called whatever.


The second doctrine I want to bring up is the Armor Doctrine as even with the various changes I think it just needs more help. I think the buffs to the 105mm was a good addition and has made it more worthwhile. The 240mm buff I don't think really helps the ability enough to make it worth the cost. On top of those 2 changes I think the M10 needs something else. It just doesn't measure up enough to be worth really getting over a Jackson.

Armor Company
Assault Engineers
Elite Vehicle Crews
M10 Wolverine - Add Smoke Shot
105mm Bulldozer Sherman - Current changes
240mm Artillery - Replaced with TOT artillery strike from infantry doctrine.
So the replacement of the 240mm with a better artillery strike would be an overall improvement by having a more consistent and versatile artillery.
Now the change to the M10 Wolverine is probably the thing most people will be confused by however I think it could be an extremely useful ability for the unit. Historically M10 Wolverines were issued smoke rounds to shoot at the enemy and in game this could help wolverines in a couple ways. First it could obviously be used in a defensive manner to help block line of sight and let the fast moving M10 escape, however it can also be used offensively by throwing smoke in the facing of enemy armor and then using the extreme speed of the M10 to reach a flank. There is even possible a bit of utility by using the smoke to block line of sight and then using the new 105mm barrage to ruin enemy infantry or AT positions. I think it's at least worth testing out as it gives the M10 more utility over it's bigger cousin which is something it sorely needs to be worth using.