Lefh Counter Barrage Controversy

It's been a while that Lefh's counter barrage was claimed to be overpowered by coh2 streamer Skippy, recently it became hot topic in r/CoH. Today a testing video by u/Tea2theBag was released which proves that Lefh tracks the artilery piece even after the latter moved after firing.



A detailed counter battery mechanism guess was raised by u/gtacleveland:

The CB only uses the initial position of the enemy unit within its arc to launch the barrage.

Skippy shows his opinion for the overpoweness of the ability:

The only unit ability that's resource free, has no cool down, requires no micro by tracking units across the map in the fog of war and automatically fires, killing enemy vehicles with no input from the player. Amazing.

A potential exploitative tactic was raised by u/Gunjob:

In fact based off these findings, the best way to count bat with the LeFH is to aim it off into nowhere and it will track and kill any mobile arty, no matter how far you move it and even for how long.

What are your opnion toward this? Should the status quo be maintained, or certain balance change has to be made around the ability?

Original Reddit Post

-----------------------2021/3/25 Update---------------------------

- The original poster u/Tea2theBag joined the discussion with a lot more test videos:

Hi there. I've just come across this thread. This is my thought process with the LeFH's ability to track



And thank you for posting my test video to bring light onto the issue my friends and I discovered. Appreciate it. I welcome a discussion.

An encounter with the tracking in a live game


British Counter Battery to compare


The shell scatter as requested to test by /u/gtacleveland

I'm amazed that this has only been found now - the ability has been in the game for nearly 8 years now?

I don't think this is something that can be "tuned" though, if the flaw is in the counter-barrage's 'script'. My guess is that the "order of operation" is incorrect, and it's:

1. Is enemy in fire-cone? If not, turn to face them.
2. Fire barrage

If the "fire barrage" step is the same as a normal barrage, then step #2 includes step #1 and it's redundant. However, since it needs to wait for #1 to be "true" before firing the barrage, it can be exploited pretty easily, as shown in the video. Alternatively, the counter-barrage could work on some other strange system - I'm not familiar at all with how CoH2 works, technically.

Regardless, I think the best change is to replace the ability as a whole; zero-input/high damage abilities have always been pretty bad. My suggestion from another thread:

9. OST/OKW (multiple docs) LeFH "Counter Barrage" replaced with something else. The amount of damage this does with zero user input is a bit much. Perhaps replacing it with something like a "precision barrage", where it fires 1-2 rounds (with more delay between them) but with half the scatter (and a shared cooldown).

edit: did some testing

1. Counter-barrage still respects the LeFH's maximum range; it'll still turn to face your units (even when it can't see them), but if your units have moved outside it's range it won't fire.

2. The LeFH has a tiny window where it can "re-setup". If the target is outside it's cone, it will turn to face it (as in #1 above): however, if during the tiny period of time between the LeFH stopping its turn and the "setup bar" being displayed the target leaves the cone again, they'll pick it up and turn again.

3. As soon as the "setup bar" shows up (even at 0% filled) its barrage location has been chosen; even if the target keeps moving, etc.

OST/OKW (multiple docs) LeFH "Counter Barrage" replaced with something else. The amount of damage this does with zero user input is a bit much. Perhaps replacing it with something like a "precision barrage", where it fires 1-2 rounds (with more delay between them) but with half the scatter (and a shared cooldown).

That would leave a real sour taste in my mouth considering they removed Precision Barrage from all Soviet artillery for being overpowered years ago. If it ever comes back, it should be for the ML-20 and possibly Mortar and Katyusha. To bring it back to Ostheer, even in a less powerful form, would just be insulting.

All they really need to do is have Counter Barrage rapidly barrage the area where a gun fired from. I feel like tracking targets through the fog of war is 100% not intended.

Would this tracking be a factor under normal circumstances? I mean in this example the lefh is looking away and the katy can't even finish firing, plus it retreats sideways relative from the howitzer.
Normally the lefh is already facing roughly towards the barraging units, they stay a bit longer to finish their barrage and they retreat further away from the howitzer. In that case the lefh would start firing early, so it wouldn't be able to track the retreat.

Ive been saying for years CB is straight overpowered. Just get rid of it! If we want abilities on howitzers, give them a smoke barrage, WP, or Creeping, though creeping has perfect accuracy issues too.

ML/20 reaches leFH power at vet 1, its dramatically weaker till then.

To be honest that explains alot. I tend to move my arty after a barrage but they still get barraged. Thanks for the info this should be fixed.

interesting find! i didn't know about the tracking capability of cb, but i guess that's more of a feature than a bug. a powerful one, nonetheless.

interesting find! i didn't know about the tracking capability of cb, but i guess that's more of a feature than a bug. a powerful one, nonetheless.

It only tracks for the first shot, though. The video fails to mention that detail. Once it starts firing, it no longer tracks, and it will just finish its counter barrage in that area.

So this is only relevant when you cancel the rocket artillery barrage and start moving before the LeFH has had a chance to set up and fire the first shell.

It only tracks for the first shot, though. The video fails to mention that detail. Once it starts firing, it no longer tracks, and it will just finish its counter barrage in that area.

So this is only relevant when you cancel the rocket artillery barrage and start moving before the LeFH has had a chance to set up and fire the first shell.

Do you know how it behave if you move back within the cone?
I would assume it would barrage the point at which the CB is being triggered, which either is exactly or very close to the spot of the Allied arty unit.

However this behaviour is crazy. That explains why I can't reliably shift-reverse after firing.

It only tracks for the first shot, though. The video fails to mention that detail. Once it starts firing, it no longer tracks, and it will just finish its counter barrage in that area.

So this is only relevant when you cancel the rocket artillery barrage and start moving before the LeFH has had a chance to set up and fire the first shell.

No way. Are you seriously trying to say behaviour of counter battery is absolutely fine?

It only tracks for the first shot, though. The video fails to mention that detail. Once it starts firing, it no longer tracks, and it will just finish its counter barrage in that area.

So this is only relevant when you cancel the rocket artillery barrage and start moving before the LeFH has had a chance to set up and fire the first shell.

Have you watched the video? you just need to turn your lefh so to make sure your opponent end firing and reposition before it start the CA barrage.

CB is probably too strong but the testing video is still pretty pointless.

The units the CB targets are usually far away and not in "close" range like in the testing video which will mean direct hits like that are pure RNG. It's one thing to kill a Katyusha when it sits at 60 range from your Lefh but something completely different to do it on 150 range with FOW turned on.

Also as Sanders said the CB tracks before the counter barrage starts but once it has started the tracking stops so you can still move your units out of the way.

Priest and Sexton counter Lefh more than Lefh counters them because of the doctrines they come in and because they are obviously too mobile and have too much HP to be effectively killed by counter-barrage.

CB is probably too strong but the testing video is still pretty pointless.

The units the CB targets are usually far away and not in "close" range like in the testing video which will mean direct hits like that are pure RNG. It's one thing to kill a Katyusha when it sits at 60 range from your Lefh but something completely different to do it on 150 range with FOW turned on.

Also as Sanders said the CB tracks before the counter barrage starts but once it has started the tracking stops so you can still move your units out of the way.

Priest and Sexton counter Lefh more than Lefh counters them because of the doctrines they come in and because they are obviously too mobile and have too much HP to be effectively killed by counter-barrage.

Are you serious? It TRACKS. Range doesn't matter, unless it's completely out of the howitzer's range. How much more mental gymnastics are you going to do to justify this bullshit?

CB is probably too strong but the testing video is still pretty pointless.

The units the CB targets are usually far away and not in "close" range like in the testing video which will mean direct hits like that are pure RNG. It's one thing to kill a Katyusha when it sits at 60 range from your Lefh but something completely different to do it on 150 range with FOW turned on.

Also as Sanders said the CB tracks before the counter barrage starts but once it has started the tracking stops so you can still move your units out of the way.

Priest and Sexton counter Lefh more than Lefh counters them because of the doctrines they come in and because they are obviously too mobile and have too much HP to be effectively killed by counter-barrage.

yeah of course we'll all wait for the first CB shell to move the truck a second time, that's perfectly balanced for an ability that requires what... something close to zero input.

Have you watched the video? you just need to turn your lefh so to make sure your opponent end firing and reposition before it start the CA barrage.

What's the point in that? Then in an actual scenario over decent distances the LeFH will be too slow to fire before the rocket artillery can finish its barrage and back away out of range. Counter Barrage still adheres to the LeFH's maximum firing range, it does not have unlimited range.


This achieves nothing.

Even on a very small map like Crossing this doesn't work:

No way. Are you seriously trying to say behaviour of counter battery is absolutely fine?

I didn't say anything about Counter Battery in general. Just that this video is pretty pointless and only blows things out of proportion by showing an unrealistic outcome. The tracking is next to useless.

In team we always use CB for denying allies all arty (mortars, rocket and howi). It need zero input. One Lefh for CB, second for attacks.
As allies one off us use air recon and another set bombning strike. It need voice comunication. But with random team, it is nearly impossible.

In team we always use CB for denying allies all arty (mortars, rocket and howi). It need zero input. One Lefh for CB, second for attacks.
As allies one off us use air recon and another set bombning strike. It need voice comunication. But with random team, it is nearly impossible.

USF/UKF/OKW all have stock reckon sweeps ideal for providing vision on enemy static howitzer. Call in a off map in multiplayer game is not really that hard.

Are you serious? It TRACKS. Range doesn't matter, unless it's completely out of the howitzer's range. How much more mental gymnastics are you going to do to justify this bullshit?

'it 'TRACKS' is probably a bit hyperbole since it's really just the first shot fired that homes in on the target, as already pointed out. that's certainly very strong, especially considering the minimal input required, but it's still far away from firing heat-seeking missiles as the thread title would suggest. delay the reverse or queue a short stop into the retreat path and cb will miss your mobile arty piece.
that is not to say this shouldn't be looked at/changed, but it's also far from game-breaking.

Just that this video is pretty pointless and only blows things out of proportion by showing an unrealistic outcome. The tracking is next to useless in the majority of maps.

Why am I not surprised. What an absolute joke.

'it 'TRACKS' is probably a bit hyperbole since it's really just the first shot fired that homes in on the target, as already pointed out. that's certainly very strong, especially considering the minimal input required, but it's still far away from firing heat-seeking missiles as the thread title would suggest. delay the reverse or queue a short stop into the retreat path and cb will miss your mobile arty piece.
that is not to say this shouldn't be looked at/changed, but it's also far from game-breaking.

It's not gamebreaking? A zero micro ability that will track your moving artillery basically until it stops and will hit it isn't gamebreaking. I have no words.

'it 'TRACKS' is probably a bit hyperbole since it's really just the first shot fired that homes in on the target, as already pointed out. that's certainly very strong, especially considering the minimal input required, but it's still far away from firing heat-seeking missiles as the thread title would suggest. delay the reverse or queue a short stop into the retreat path and cb will miss your mobile arty piece.
that is not to say this shouldn't be looked at/changed, but it's also far from game-breaking.

Ill go as far to say you could use this to your advantage and draw the lefh away from your main forces to advoid collateral damage with its stupid aoe. Harder to do on narrow maps but possible, anyhow should be changed