[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback

V5

UKF changes

Assault Officer
The Assault Officer is having their experience requirements slightly lowered to match other officer units and to compensate for the unit's need to close the distance to be effective unlike most other officer units.
- Experience requirements from 720/1440/2880 to 680/1260/2520

Cromwell
Due to its the reliance on speed to survive, the Cromwell's veterancy is being adjusted so its mobility bonuses come earlier. Hunt has also been modified to give additional penetration, improving the Cromwell's ability to finish off heavier vehicles that have been wounded. Experience values have been slightly adjusted to reflect the unit's price.
- Hunt ability: Now also grants +20% bonus to penetration during the ability in addition to +20% moving accuracy and vehicle detection through the FOW.
- Hunt duration from 20 to 25
- Hunt munition cost from 25 to 30
- Veterancy 2 +35% weapon traverse speed and +30% reload bonuses moved to veterancy 3
- Veterancy 3 +20% reload speed, +20% rotation speed, +20% de/acceleration, and +20% maximum speed moved to veterancy 2
- Experience requirements from 1820/3640/7280 to 1780/3560/7120

Comet
The Comet is receiving slight adjustments to its AOE as part of a bug-fix and its scatter is being slightly increased. Furthermore, its high turret traverse is being lowered to be on-par with the M4 Sherman. Due to an error in naming and placement of the files, please note the previous change to White Phosphorous was already set to the correct value.
- AOE near damage now correctly set to 0.75 from 1
- Turret traverse from 45 to 40
- Scatter from 5.25 to 5.75
- Ignore previous White Phosphorous change; value was already set to 2 in live

4 Nerfs to Sections, 4 Nerfs to the Comet, and 2 Nerfs to the AEC. Pretty much all of the strong units for Brits are getting hammered and there doesn't appear to be much compensation coming for it.

Cromwell buffs are nice, but the current iteration seems incredibly AT heavy and pushes the already struggling Firefly even further into the corner.

This faction desperately needs a better toolkit and half a mortar pit ain't it.

Considering the nerfs to Comet, they could leave the price the same as it is.

Still not hearing what methodology is used...

Empirical, evidence based and substantive data driven figures? With automated testing over a large number of iterations? Mathematical modelling of units to ascertain compounding advantages? Or for that matter the asymetric advantages of Lanchester?

Or....

Is it just all pulled out of someone's ass?

IF, as appears to be claimed, AI fights have absolutely no relevance or bearing... Because, erm, it's playing a completely different game like... Or it smells or something...

Then what is the oh so superior model or tool being used?

Elchino's post above mine gives you the Methodology.

And I, and others, have explained that the AI is simply incapable of playing in the same way as a human player, and so does not give an accurate picture of unit strengths and weaknesses, nor of the faction as a whole due to it's poor combined arms usage. The "Strategies" it uses are not applicable to balance, and the higher level AI cheats through resource gain rather than being any smarter. The AI is in no way an useful tool to balance around.

Elchino's post above mine gives you the Methodology.

And I, and others, have explained that the AI is simply incapable of playing in the same way as a human player, and so does not give an accurate picture of unit strengths and weaknesses, nor of the faction as a whole due to it's poor combined arms usage. The "Strategies" it uses are not applicable to balance, and the higher level AI cheats through resource gain rather than being any smarter. The AI is in no way an useful tool to balance around.

Now imagine DeepMind COH2 version, obviously with capped APM.

Now imagine DeepMind COH2 version, obviously with capped APM.

Imagine literally never hitting a single grenade.

V5
Cromwell
Due to its the reliance on speed to survive, the Cromwell's veterancy is being adjusted so its mobility bonuses come earlier. Hunt has also been modified to give additional penetration, improving the Cromwell's ability to finish off heavier vehicles that have been wounded. Experience values have been slightly adjusted to reflect the unit's price.
- Hunt ability: Now also grants +20% bonus to penetration during the ability in addition to +20% moving accuracy and vehicle detection through the FOW.
- Hunt duration from 20 to 25
- Hunt munition cost from 25 to 30
- Veterancy 2 +35% weapon traverse speed and +30% reload bonuses moved to veterancy 3
- Veterancy 3 +20% reload speed, +20% rotation speed, +20% de/acceleration, and +20% maximum speed moved to veterancy 2
- Experience requirements from 1820/3640/7280 to 1780/3560/7120

Cromwell Hunt ability should be looked at. On it own it is not impressive but combined with commander upgrade, war speed and vet 2 mobility bonuses things start getting out of hand.

Cromwell Hunt ability should be looked at. On it own it is not impressive but combined with commander upgrade, war speed and vet 2 mobility bonuses things start getting out of hand.

A tank which only good quality is speed is going to be fast now? *gasps*

I would prefer to see crommy be good at ai department rather than "hunting".
The ability is nice and unique but I for one would still prefer to go for the "the heavies".
I think Ukf doesn't suffer in the at department and in my games when medium armor hits I feel the need for some Ai power and not rely only on Sections.
I saw top players also holding for Comet because they could take care of tanks wiht At guns and AEC.
But I doubt at this stage we are gonna see a shift in Crommwell design si let's see how this plays out.

Cromwell Hunt ability should be looked at. On it own it is not impressive but combined with commander upgrade, war speed and vet 2 mobility bonuses things start getting out of hand.

Ukf gets TOO much love this patch.


Not only will cromwell out play p4, the speed makes it harder to kill it using ATG and handheld AT

A straight offence + defence buffs because it is less use unit??

so when is stug to make good?

i guess we should start to less use some units so buff team can buff!

I would say that hunt won't be used mainly against heavier targets but it will be used to just have penetration advantage fighting mediums.

Also honestly, speed buffs, fow view and so on is cool. But won't it be VERY easy to dive for artillery units and just delete them. I mean, you can't really hide because Cromwell will see it, and aside from insta alpha strike nothing will kill it fast enouth with how fast it is.

I really thing that if it should detect vehicles in fow it should be applied only to damaged ones.

nah hunt can easily use to flank heavier targets.

as vipper said, warspeed + faster vet + vet2 + hunt

holy god, and people were complaining about blitz or smoke! Ost wasted one vet level on blitz only!

i find it frustrating.

balance team on one hand, are so fearful when brumbar, ostt and vsl gives allies a fight, that the nerfs bat hit swiftly.

on the other hand, they just throw as much buffs to units like cromwell and FF, that make them more than just a fight

I

I really thing that if it should detect vehicles in fow it should be applied only to damaged ones.

And it is how hammer tracking is already work

Not only will cromwell out play p4, the speed makes it harder to kill it using ATG and handheld AT

Snares. Also if he activates Combat War Speed or whatever it's called, activate Blitzkrieg and back up. The P4 will still easily outslug a Cromwell and his ability only lasts 25 seconds and to use it he has to aggress you which means he's on your side of the map meaning your infantry and AT Guns should be in position to support. If they're not the loss is on your skills and micro or you were outplayed by your opponent in some way.

A straight offence + defence buffs because it is less use unit??

Literally probably the worst combat unit in the game at the moment in it's class. It does absolutely nothing as a Generalist that UFK players will wait for a Comet while a P4 is shitting on them before they'll build a Cromwell.

so when is stug to make good?

Stug is fine, It's cheap and can be used in situations where you're winning the infantry fight but need to fight Tanks. Cromwell has no purpose at the moment and building one is suicide. The Stug fufills it's niche purpose, The Cromwell does not fit it's generalist purpose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDkr9aHIGyM&t=1893s

cromwell works fine here

the reason why ost goes p4 because what else they can go to back up their 4 man squad in mid-game? brumbar is too long, pure AI micro intensive, and now gets NERF in v5.

reason why ukf skip cromwell for comet, because it is a bigger cromwell and ukf can hold the line without cromwell, unlike ost+p4. I mean if p5 is just a bigger p4, im sure ost will attempt to skip p4.

cromwell fights fine against p4 before v5.
with v5, cromwell is too strong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDkr9aHIGyM&t=1893s

cromwell works fine here

the reason why ost goes p4 because what else they can go to back up their 4 man squad in mid-game? brumbar is too long, pure AI micro intensive, and now gets NERF in v5.

reason why ukf skip cromwell for comet, because it is a bigger cromwell and ukf can hold the line without cromwell, unlike ost+p4. I mean if p5 is just a bigger p4, im sure ost will attempt to skip p4.

cromwell fights fine against p4 before v5.
with v5, cromwell is too strong.

So you're telling me, that an ISU-152 and a Squad of Tommies shooting a Raketten that was left unmicro'd down to 2 guys, and the Cromwell comes and shoots it twice with it's main gun and a little with it's machine gun killing it is why the Cromwell is unbalanced (It almost died in the process of that too)

You can't cherrypick these small instances of a unit doing something against someone who isn't paying attention with support from a Heavy Tank and a squad of infantry in a game where the Allied team was already in the lead.

As for 4 Man Grens, yes they're not very good right now with Ostruppen, Ass Grens, and 5 Man Grens being infinitely better. You want to axis fanboy bitch about something it's dropped right into your lap. Until then you have 3 perfectly acceptable options to use instead (Maybe not so much Ostruppen anymore but I don't know.)

Cromwell does not fight a P4 in any capacity without extremely superior infantry and AT support. I suggest playing games of Brits until you're at a level where you are on Wher. Build Cromwells and experience the suffering that is that vehicle. If you are regularly losing to Cromwell's with a P4 you likely need to improve your support game by having snares ready around your P4, play your vehicles better so they don't get flanked or ganged up on, or pay attention to your opponent so he can't surprise you. Doing so will make you a much better Wher player in the long run since you'll better understand and learn the timing and counters of the factions you face by playing as them.

A tank which only good quality is speed is going to be fast now? *gasps*

Still has to be within reason. We don't need any of them anime tanks that teleport behind your tanks sayin it's nothing personal.

V5


Assault Officer
The Assault Officer is having their experience requirements slightly lowered to match other officer units and to compensate for the unit's need to close the distance to be effective unlike most other officer units.
- Experience requirements from 720/1440/2880 to 680/1260/2520

The assault officer is not a commander unit and it is not locked behind CP, so it couldn't be compared with other officers in my opinion.

V5
Cromwell
Hunt has also been modified to give additional penetration, improving the Cromwell's ability to finish off heavier vehicles that have been wounded. Experience values have been slightly adjusted to reflect the unit's price.
- Hunt ability: Now also grants +20% bonus to penetration during the ability in addition to +20% moving accuracy and vehicle detection through the FOW.
- Hunt duration from 20 to 25
- Hunt munition cost from 25 to 30
- Experience requirements from 1820/3640/7280 to 1780/3560/7120

So now it looks like it can out perform P4 ausf which cost more, this doesn't look balanced.(Hunt ability needs more testing)