[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback
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8 Dec 2020, 05:24 AM
#421
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
If the damn battering ram remains on the 1st veterancy, I will also follow the example of people who think that "some people make the game for themselves." This ability is ridiculous, and even more ridiculous on the first veterancy. If this ability remains, I consider it the most mentally challenged decision of this lousy 2020.
8 Dec 2020, 06:29 AM
#422
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
ram is a huge factor to the cost efficiency of the T-34... removing ram has the potential to turn the T-34-76 bad as its base stats are simply subpar...
either revert the ram nerf or buff the base stats of the T-34-76 if you want to remove ram from the game as with the patch
Not really. In the WC2019 out of 35 T-34/76 ram was used 5 times in 2 games.
8 Dec 2020, 06:46 AM
#423
Posts: 1979
Not really. In the WC2019 out of 35 T-34/76 ram was used 5 times in 2 games.
and in wc2020 the soviets were barely used at all
ohh and by the way ram is also a huge scare factor against big scary axis tanks... since it essentially serves as a hard counter when facing the soviets... no way anybody`s gonna ram a panzer 4...
8 Dec 2020, 06:50 AM
#424
Posts: 1289
Not really. In the WC2019 out of 35 T-34/76 ram was used 5 times in 2 games.
A ability that will end in the death of that same units will not be used lightly.
5x in 2 games is quite a lot for such an ability.
It not like throwing a nade or using oorah.
8 Dec 2020, 07:07 AM
#425
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
A ability that will end in the death of that same units will not be used lightly.
5x in 2 games is quite a lot for such an ability.
It not like throwing a nade or using oorah.
It was used in 2 games in total of 48 out 35 T-34/76 units build and another 21 T-34/85.
The claim that T-34/76 is useless with ram at vet 1 is simply not supported by the stat from WC2019.
As for WC2020 the stat are not available but Soviet where picked is only an indication that they had trouble vs osstruppen and nothing more.
8 Dec 2020, 07:15 AM
#426
Posts: 563
I like thing going for su 76 but i feel like it would be more intresting if you could choose path between of at or ai.
For example upgrade it with 50 mp plus what would be appropriate fuel/muni cost. Anti tank upgrade would give better damage and pen and ambush camo with cost of barrage, while HE upgrade would change its ammo to he and make it autofire in style of scott and its barrage would be buffed in range and/or lethality.
For example upgrade it with 50 mp plus what would be appropriate fuel/muni cost. Anti tank upgrade would give better damage and pen and ambush camo with cost of barrage, while HE upgrade would change its ammo to he and make it autofire in style of scott and its barrage would be buffed in range and/or lethality.
"Pain is almost euphoric sam!"
8 Dec 2020, 07:18 AM
#427
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Some decent changes I was hoping for more radical changes on Penals, some notes at first glance.
SU-76
Imo the mobility bonuses need to be looked at since SU-76 becomes allot more mobile than other case mates at vet2 (2088 XP) while:
speed:7.6 accelerations: 1.9 rotation 40
For comparison reasons:
Stug III at vet 3 not 2 (6040XP)
Speed: 7.2 Accel: 2.1 Rotate: 33.6
Panther at vet 3 not 2 (8160)
speed: 6.6 Accel: 2.4 Rotate: 36
ISU-152
Concrete Piercing
Since concrete piercing shot now has 1.000 penetration should be redesigned as an AP shot only and lose AOE? Is there any reason why this shot should be used vs ATGs?
Penal
Penal PTRS accuracy from 0.15/0.105/0.06 to 0.3/0.21/0.16
At vet 3 with the vet bonuses the Penal PTRS (0.47/0.33/0.25) will have similar accuracy to Guards PTRs 0.69/0.58/0.253 further blurring the lines.
In addition with 3 PTRs you should consider removed the chance of PTRS causing critical to vehicles since PTRS spamming can become a problem.
SU-76
Imo the mobility bonuses need to be looked at since SU-76 becomes allot more mobile than other case mates at vet2 (2088 XP) while:
speed:7.6 accelerations: 1.9 rotation 40
For comparison reasons:
Stug III at vet 3 not 2 (6040XP)
Speed: 7.2 Accel: 2.1 Rotate: 33.6
Panther at vet 3 not 2 (8160)
speed: 6.6 Accel: 2.4 Rotate: 36
ISU-152
Concrete Piercing
Since concrete piercing shot now has 1.000 penetration should be redesigned as an AP shot only and lose AOE? Is there any reason why this shot should be used vs ATGs?
Penal
Penal PTRS accuracy from 0.15/0.105/0.06 to 0.3/0.21/0.16
At vet 3 with the vet bonuses the Penal PTRS (0.47/0.33/0.25) will have similar accuracy to Guards PTRs 0.69/0.58/0.253 further blurring the lines.
In addition with 3 PTRs you should consider removed the chance of PTRS causing critical to vehicles since PTRS spamming can become a problem.
8 Dec 2020, 08:53 AM
#428
Posts: 15
Great V2 notes!
Would also like to see Penals getting an alternative upgrade for AI ( maybe 7man ? ) and making Conscripts nade side tech cheaper and it's a 10/10 change to soviets from me. The only thing I dislike are the sniper changes.
Would also like to see Penals getting an alternative upgrade for AI ( maybe 7man ? ) and making Conscripts nade side tech cheaper and it's a 10/10 change to soviets from me. The only thing I dislike are the sniper changes.
Sniper in the bunker.
8 Dec 2020, 09:21 AM
#429
Posts: 1289
It was used in 2 games in total of 48 out 35 T-34/76 units build and another 21 T-34/85.
The claim that T-34/76 is useless with ram at vet 1 is simply not supported by the stat from WC2019.
As for WC2020 the stat are not available but Soviet where picked is only an indication that they had trouble vs osstruppen and nothing more.
The problem is not that vet makes ram usseles. Its that you need vet to kill your unit in the hope it does enough to the enemy. Ram better give some garantees other then suicide. Like main gun destroyed on the enemy tank and the t34 next to the stun.
Now its nerfed and put behind vet. A double nerf. I believe i read that the t34 should be able to back away after ram. It will still be a dead t34 9/10.
8 Dec 2020, 09:25 AM
#430
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Good changes overall but i don't think they are enough to account for the T70 nerf (1v1) and ram nerfs (teamgames).
It would make more sense if the total or part of the cost of the upgrade is discounted from the T4 building. Cause you can't survive with just staying at T3 when call ins still require T4. I agree and don't expect people upgrading at T3.
I think ram plays a more vital role on teamgames than in 1v1. On 1v1 you have enough space where you can still bully single infantry units way into the late game as well as outmaneuver vehicles to account for the lack of AT performance on the unit.
You have to take into account that ram on itself is not a good ability as it requires another unit/ability to synergy with.
IL2 bombing strike is not used on 1v1 and Airborne tactics saw a single game been used.
All these new Soviet changes look amazing! I'm confused about the change to Mobilise Reserves though. It is now unlocked when you buy the Tier 4 building and not when it finishes construction? My concern is that even before it's never worthwhile spending the cash to get it in Tier 3 when it unlocks for free when you get Tier 4. If that's the case then it's even more of a no-brainer to just build tier 4 instead of unlocking it at tier 3. Making the tier 3 upgrade cheaper would have been an interesting alternative.
It would make more sense if the total or part of the cost of the upgrade is discounted from the T4 building. Cause you can't survive with just staying at T3 when call ins still require T4. I agree and don't expect people upgrading at T3.
Not really. In the WC2019 out of 35 T-34/76 ram was used 5 times in 2 games.
I think ram plays a more vital role on teamgames than in 1v1. On 1v1 you have enough space where you can still bully single infantry units way into the late game as well as outmaneuver vehicles to account for the lack of AT performance on the unit.
You have to take into account that ram on itself is not a good ability as it requires another unit/ability to synergy with.
IL2 bombing strike is not used on 1v1 and Airborne tactics saw a single game been used.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
8 Dec 2020, 09:39 AM
#431
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
It would make more sense if the total or part of the cost of the upgrade is discounted from the T4 building. Cause you can't survive with just staying at T3 when call ins still require T4. I agree and don't expect people upgrading at T3.
Turning it into a sort of Battlephase, so a research in T3 required to build T4 and with the cost deducted from T4, is always still an option to further smooth out the Soviet mid game changes. I brought it up but for now we will first see what the current changes will do before taking such more drastic measures.
8 Dec 2020, 09:48 AM
#432
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Turning it into a sort of Battlephase, so a research in T3 required to build T4 and with the cost deducted from T4, is always still an option to further smooth out the Soviet mid game changes. I brought it up but for now we will first see what the current changes will do before taking such more drastic measures.
Or you can simply toned it down and move it to T3...
That would also solve the issue of 7 conscripts beating 5 men grenadiers.
8 Dec 2020, 09:51 AM
#433
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
I think ram plays a more vital role on teamgames than in 1v1. On 1v1 you have enough space where you can still bully single infantry units way into the late game as well as outmaneuver vehicles to account for the lack of AT performance on the unit.
You have to take into account that ram on itself is not a good ability as it requires another unit/ability to synergy with.
IL2 bombing strike is not used on 1v1 and Airborne tactics saw a single game been used.
My point is that T-34/76 is presented like a bad tank without "Ram" like a broken record. All medium tank are less effective in large modes and I see little reason for T-34/76 to be more effective since it already dirty cheap with fuel cost lower to Ostwind/Centaur.
Soviet are already strong in team games.
8 Dec 2020, 09:55 AM
#434
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The problem is not that vet makes ram usseles. Its that you need vet to kill your unit in the hope it does enough to the enemy. Ram better give some garantees other then suicide. Like main gun destroyed on the enemy tank and the t34 next to the stun.
Ram used to destroy the enemy gun and it was op/frustrating. This feels like the rant about Sherman's HE shells, Ram is an extra ability T-34/76 gets it does not have to be a great option in all cases.
Now its nerfed and put behind vet. A double nerf. I believe i read that the t34 should be able to back away after ram. It will still be a dead t34 9/10.
The simply do not use the ability is you do not think you will get an advantage out of it.
8 Dec 2020, 10:01 AM
#435
Posts: 1979
It was used in 2 games in total of 48 out 35 T-34/76 units build and another 21 T-34/85.
The claim that T-34/76 is useless with ram at vet 1 is simply not supported by the stat from WC2019.
As for WC2020 the stat are not available but Soviet where picked is only an indication that they had trouble vs osstruppen and nothing more.
this image sums up the fallacy you are making here vipper
i hope you are familiar with it
8 Dec 2020, 10:44 AM
#436
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
...
Lol got that reference.
My point is that T-34/76 is presented like a bad tank without "Ram" like a broken record. All medium tank are less effective in large modes and I see little reason for T-34/76 to be more effective since it already dirty cheap with fuel cost lower to Ostwind/Centaur.
Soviet are already strong in team games.
The strong points of Soviets are been nerfed. The game would be in a much better state if ISU/ELE/JT were removed from the game but in this patch only the ISU get's nerfed while the tools given to counter those heavies are been tone down as well without giving any proper alternatives.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
8 Dec 2020, 10:56 AM
#437
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The strong points of Soviets are been nerfed. The game would be in a much better state if ISU/ELE/JT were removed from the game but in this patch only the ISU get's nerfed while the tools given to counter those heavies are been tone down as well without giving any proper alternatives.
And that irrelevant to T-34/76 performance. It has been argued that T-34/76 is useless without ram. My point is that this in not the case and the unit cost efficient with or without ram.
8 Dec 2020, 11:15 AM
#438
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
And that irrelevant to T-34/76 performance. It has been argued that T-34/76 is useless without ram. My point is that this in not the case and the unit cost efficient with or without ram.
It's not as far as team games performance we are talking off.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
8 Dec 2020, 11:20 AM
#439
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
It's not as far as team games performance we are talking off.
Lets stop playing gmaes here and you can answer a simply question:
In your opinion do you agree with the claim that T-34/76 is useless without ram.
8 Dec 2020, 11:26 AM
#440
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Lets stop playing gmaes here and you can answer a simply question:
In your opinion do you agree with the claim that T-34/76 is useless without ram.
On 1v1 no.
On teamgames it's close to be.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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