[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

My thoughts are primarily from 3v3/4v4 AT experience. If something is not mentioned, then I think it's acceptable.

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Overall this patch shows great potential.

However one change change especially caught my eye and it will probably become relevant in the ISU dominated meta. (I'm assuming the ISU won't go extinct after this patch despite the HE nerf).

In its current form the Concrete Piercing Round oneshots any clumped squad even behind green cover from behind LoS and from behind sight/shotblockers

If indeed the commander changes kick in and ISU commanders lose their IL2 wombocombos a 60 muni hard-to-counter squadwipe tool might become problematic especially in bigger game modes. Overall as a mechanic a shot fired from FoW that can delete a full health squad staying in green cover is unfun and offers little counterplay.

Penal changes are welcome but i wonder how much it is going to help later on as more elite units like pgrens and obers start to roam, as their firepower vs infantry is still limited to their stock rifles. It would be nice to see some sort of anti infantry oriented weapon upgrade for penals, although what it could be is questionable. su 76 buffs are welcome, t70 nerf looks decent, especially the rate of fire nerf. And m16 finally wont insta drop planes as they arrive.

So you nerf ram that suicides your tank but at the same time you have immobilizing AEC, stun shots across all OST AT and Stuart with (shitty) immobilization. But obviously 300 mp and 90fuel cost stun ability is the problem?

I like how you acknowledge that maxim sucks at its PRIMARY function and instead you are like "sorry bud, you have to press a button and wait for it to activate to get a functioning HMG" instead of just buffing it primary function. But I welcome deathloop changes.

T70 is a crutch that should be nerfed but not without buffing soviet early-mid game in some other way. Otherwise you just further bury soviets into the ground.

Don't have any strong opinions about other changes.

The end of the Ram+Il2 bomb is clearly incredible, I'm just sad that I will not be able to see more tears of elephant destroyed by 2 input.

The end of the Ram+Il2 bomb is clearly incredible, I'm just sad that I will not be able to see more tears of elephant destroyed by 2 input.

This is not the death of Ram + Il2 bomb this is the death of the T-34-76. Because outside of the kamikaze, it is a completely meaningless unit. Suicide a unit, in a game based on the preservation of veteran units + late game where the T-34 gets very poorly at veterancy. This change simply throws the T-34 out of the game.

This is not the death of Ram + Il2 bomb this is the death of the T-34-76. Because outside of the kamikaze, it is a completely meaningless unit.

It's performances matche it's pricetag and is quite a good medium tank, the only responsibles of it's death are those who use it only for this 2 input strat.

It's performances matche it's pricetag and is quite a good medium tank, the only responsibles of it's death are those who use it only for this 2 input strat.

This is not a good tank. It is as bad as the AT, its AI is not slightly better than the T-70. Nerf T-70 is not an impetus for the use of T-34.

This is not a good tank. It is as bad as the AT, its AI is not slightly better than the T-70. Nerf T-70 is not an impetus for the use of T-34.

It AI performs exactly the same as a Pz 4 at long range while have only less than 1s longer reload time, 1 less mg (but it's hull mg does double the damage) and costing 90 fuel and 300 mp.

So yes, it is a good medium, you're just too stubborn to realise it.

It performs exactly the same as a Pz 4 at long range while have only less than 1s longer reload time, 1 less mg (but it's hull mg does double the damage) and costing 90 fuel and 300 mp.

So yes, it is a good medium, you're just too stubborn to realise it.

If you're talking about AI, you should mention this.
Because the fact it has 30 less penetration at that range and is fighting at least 20 more armor tanks means its AT is completely nowhere near P4.

It is alright tank, but its unusable against other meds frontally, it can even bounce off ostwind.

If you're talking about AI, you should mention this.
Because the fact it has 30 less penetration at that range and is fighting at least 20 more armor tanks means its AT is completely nowhere near P4.

It is alright tank, but its unusable against other meds frontally, it can even bounce off ostwind.

yep, Edited.

It performs exactly the same as a Pz 4 at long range while have only less than 1s longer reload time, 1 less mg (but it's hull mg does double the damage) and costing 90 fuel and 300 mp.

So yes, it is a good medium, you're just too stubborn to realise it.

Pz.4 constantly wipes a full infantry unit of 6 people. T-34, machine guns do damage, cannon is bad against all targets.

Pz.4 constantly wipes a full infantry unit of 6 people.

I guess we'll stop there.

A simple and logical question arises: why do I need a T-34 behind the aisles of the kamikaze? If there is a T-70 that comes earlier and is good in the AI role, while the T-34 comes at the same time Pz.4. Or take Katyusha for the same price, which will be perfect against blobs. And ZiS-3 will be much more advantageous against Pz.4.

Combat Engineers
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The RA bonus is to high for long range unit and it will bring them close to conscripts entity durability

M3 Scout
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Suggestions:
Remove fuel cost add a mu cost for passenger to fire
Passenger receive HP damage on destruction but are suppressed
Add vet bonuses that reduces pop so cost less to maintain


ZiS-3 Field Gun
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Suggestions:
Remove tracking or remove the mini map info from the ability, barrage mini map info combo should not be available.

Lower barrage damage to ambient buildings, the unit can knock them out in 1-2 shot

Move barrage to vet 1

Penal Battalion
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Can we stop with band aids for Penal battalions and accept that they are badly designed?

Suggestions:
Follow PF design lower cost/build time now come with mosins (or 2 SVT)

Swap satchel for HE grenade or satchel now requires tech (possibly combined with CE demos that are rebalanced)

PTRS uprade requires tech unit loses satchel, satchel no longer result in engine damage (might add temp critical like weapon disable, gunner/driver injured)


M5 Half-Track
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Glad to see that what I and other have pointed out for year is being addressed number need to be tested.

SU76
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The vet 1 ability with first strike bonus +20% accuracy,+20% penetration,+25% reload speed is far superior to other similar abilities.

Suggestions:
Camo no longer lock units or has mobility penalties. Camo simply break when unit moves. First strike bonus removed (or move further down the veterancy) units gain 5-10 sight when in camo.

T70
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Make reckon mode a timed ability
Try to reduce DPS on the move by changing scatter values either increasing them or greatly decreasing them



T34/76 and T34/85 Ram Ability
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Increasing the penetration of the unit is not a good direction.

Suggestions:
Make the ability scale with veterancy, bonus could include lower chance for engine over heat, increasing range, lower critical types on T-34, increasing penetration.

Swap the stun on deflection with a speed penalty.

Replace the immobilize critical on the T-34 with a heavy engine critical

SU85
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Suggestions:
Bring XP value and Pop inline with other "heavy TDs"

Make focus sight a timed ability (might even remove the mobility penalties)

Remove the tracking/focused sight combo

Reduce the accuracy once vetted either by lowering base accuracy or by replacing accuracy bonus with something else

ISU-152
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Nice to see that the suggestion I made year ago for rear armor is being implemented.

Remove bombing and mark target from commander

KV-1

Increase pop and XP value ,reduce rear armor, replace damage reduction with HP, change vet bonuses to fit role.

Combat Engineers
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The RA bonus is to high for long range unit and it will bring them close to conscripts entity durability

If you are against this change, you clearly are clueless on why its there.
Neither pios nor CEs are combat units(inb4 semantic war on CEs name), neither one performs good in ANY way in mid and late game without flamer and neither one benefits from accuracy in any way with flamer.
Accuracy vet on both was pointless, because everything roflstomps them anyway, rec acc helps them both survive and do their actual job in late game - sweep mines and repair units.

If you think they get anywhere close to cons in durability, re-run your excel sheets and check the actual values cons get.

The Soviets are currently the underdog and unfortunately I don't think this patch will change that. While some units got some welcome improvements, all 3 of their armored units received nerfs. Due to lackluster infantry and machine guns, the T-70 is Soviet mid-game. I'd be cautious with taking it down a peg without ensuring that the Soviets can better hold their footing without it.

The T-34-76 nerf has already been thoroughly panned. I have nothing new to add, but agree with the ridiculousness of nerfing a snare that requires you to sacrifice an entire tank to use. The SU-85 nerf I am also concerned about, considering the raw power of Panthers, Tigers, and Tiger II's; the SU-85 is their first and last line of defence against these incredible threats.

It's a bit of a sore spot to see the Panzerwerfer getting the Katyusha's primary advantage (fast arrival time) as a Veterancy bonus. A fast-arriving Panzerwerfer barrage is an order of magnitude better than the light rain that is the Katyusha's Creeping Barrage. I would go so far as to say it might even be getting close to the power of Precision Barrage which Creeping Barrage replaced. A well used Stuka Zu Fuß may as well be a built-in Precision Barrage.

It's performances matche it's pricetag and is quite a good medium tank.

i wonder how you can say that when you barely even play the soviets but ok...

the T-34-76 is basically a light tank with more HP and armor that comes later/takes more fuel to field than proper mediums like the panzer 4 despite being outright inferior... I'm sorry but the panzer 4 and sherman are both a whole league better than the T-34-76 and the Cromwell and no amount of bias is gonna change that...

SU76
The vet 1 ability with first strike bonus +20% accuracy,+20% penetration,+25% reload speed is far superior to other similar abilities.

Suggestions:
Camo no longer lock units or has mobility penalties. Camo simply break when unit moves. First strike bonus removed (or move further down the veterancy) units gain 5-10 sight when in camo.

The camo for the SU-76 actually has no reload bonus, even with what the ability guide might suggest. Only the turreted vehicles get that specific bonus in Tank Hunter doctrine. The ability also requires more setup time than similar abilities. It takes like 3 seconds until all the 'bushes' around the SU76 are planted and it camoes, so the bonusses are fine.

It was opted not to go for any raw stat buffs to the SU76, because 2 SU76s shouldn't be better than 1 SU85 or there would be less incentive to tech.

the T-34-76 is basically a light tank with more HP and armor that comes later/takes more fuel to field than proper mediums [..] no amount of bias is gonna change that...

The T-34/76 is widely regarded as a good tank that is very cost effective and very good when deployed in critical mass, which isn't hard to achieve given its low cost.