[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

iirc in 2018 or 2019 there was a 2v2 wc.

allies/soviet were the strongest as most agreed.

since then, the mod team played around with heavy call-ins, gave MR to sov, buff maxim. but otherwise, sov faction remained untouched.

so im perplexed a lot others are saying sov are UP now. imo is bollocks. sov are still the strongest 2v2 faction imo, especially with 7man cons now.

thus it hurts to see mod team, rushed to nerf ostt and vsl grens because of a single 1v1 wc recently.

maybe thats because the M3/T1 play basically bullied OKW out of existence without a decent counter while ostheer didnt recieve the lategame buffs at that time... but you know lets ignore that with a few grains of bias....

Wow, they can self-heal out of combat and have sight radius but still standart mainline fighting range. Jeez, someone please stop this OKW OP and axis bias already.

+7 sight only when in cover, absolutely massive!

42 sight only when in cover, absolutely massive!

yes because sight and healing is soo useless...

maybe thats because the M3/T1 play basically bullied OKW out of existence without a decent counter while ostheer didnt recieve the lategame buffs at that time... but you know lets ignore that with a few grains of bias....

what late game ost buff of note?

+7 sight only when in cover, absolutely massive!

Funny thing IS get +10 at vet 1...

Funny thing IS get +10 at vet 1...

IS also get +5? if upgraded with arty smoke.

IS also get +5? if upgraded with arty smoke.

OKW OP plz nerf. You all are wehrboos, and you all need L2P. Did I say that KT is non doc heavy?

what late game ost buff of note?

off the top of my head?


-20% DR on grens
-2mp on T4
tech cost adjustments
a few brummbar buffs here and there
i think the panther change to 960hp happened between 2018 and now
VSL

and of course some earlygame buffs
3 min pgrens

off the top of my head?


-20% DR on grens
-2mp on T4
tech cost adjustments
a few brummbar buffs here and there
i think the panther change to 960hp happened between 2018 and now
VSL

and of course some earlygame buffs
3 min pgrens

nope you wrong. i dont have the details, but the only buff since 2v2 wc was 20% DR on grens, but at the cost of losing RA. So they are better against explosives but slightly worse against infantry

brumbar was actually nerfed prior to the 2v2 championship! lol.
I think there was a slight reversal afterwards, but still an overall nerf.

and now, brumbar is getting more nerf.

anyway, the point i trying to say is Sov is hardly UP or on its knees now. little was change for them.

just because they are less prefered in recent top 1v1 wc, dont make a statement for 2v2 or team games.

nope you wrong. i dont have the details, but the only buff since 2v2 wc was 20% DR on grens, but at the cost of losing RA. So they are better against explosives but slightly worse against infantry

no... DR affects both explosive and small arms damage... its also really good since it means that AOE damage is reduced... a huge killer of grens

brumbar was actually nerfed prior to the 2v2 championship! lol.
I think there was a slight reversal afterwards, but still an overall nerf.

exactly... then it got buffed afterwards...


also VSL and 3 min pgrens are a factor yeah?

anyway, the point i trying to say is Sov is hardly UP or on its knees now. little was change for them.

just because they are less prefered in recent top 1v1 wc, dont make a statement for 2v2 or team games.

In 1v1 it will mostly be fine for soviets, if ram buthering in v1 v2 and v3 went through in 4v4 soviets would be dead weight.

On the other side neither ost nor okw are on their knees. And vsl is to strong in live.

In 1v1 it will mostly be fine for soviets,

x to doubt... the T-70 got whacked hard and the soviets have not been adequately compensated since... and the faction in live still struggles hard in 1v1s and somewhat in 2v2s...

no... DR affects both explosive and small arms damage... its also really good since it means that AOE damage is reduced... a huge killer of grens



exactly... then it got buffed afterwards...


also VSL and 3 min pgrens are a factor yeah?

the loss of RA still affected grens against chance of hit. so yes DR is not a catch all buff. Not huge when it comes at vet3 too.

brumbar did not get buff afterwards, but a small part of the nerf was reverted. now its going to get another nerf bat!

vsl iirc came before 2v2 wc. it wasnt much use for a long while. ost players only started exploring after heavy were nerfed. but in 2v2, heavies are still a thing and vsl doctrine is not as useful late games.

3 min pgren is a high level 1v1 thing imo. out of my scope.

the loss RA still affected grens against chance of hit. so yes DR is not a catch all buff. Not huge when it comes at vet3.

uhh... no thats not how the math works... 20% DR = 20% RA vs small arms fire...

brumbar did not get buffed afterwards, a small part of the nerf was reverted.

uhh the brummbar had a rework not a nerf during 2018... check the patchnotes

Brummbar
The Brummbar is having its AOE adjusted to reduce its ability to wipe out full health units on the first shot, but still able to deal significant damage on misses.
• AOE distance changed from 1.25/2.5/3.75 to 0.625/1.25/6; applies to both auto-attack and bunker-buster
• AOE damage changed from 1/0.3/0.05 to 1/0.35/0.2; applies to both auto-attack and bunker-buster

meanwhile the brummbar got a buff during the 2020 patch

Brummbar

Due to its cost, lower than usual range, and casemate design, the Brummbar is having its armor nerf partially reverted to allow the unit to engage fortified positions.

Armour from 240 to 260

vsl iirc came before 2v2 wc. it wasnt much use for a long while. ost players only started exploring after heavy were nerfed. but in 2v2, heavies are still a thing and vsl doctrine is not as useful.

VSL and ostruppen are the current meta... what are you on??

3 min pgren is a high level 1v1 thing imo. out of my scope.

thats on you then.. i see 3 min pgren plays pretty often...

Wow, they can self-heal out of combat and have sight radius but still standart mainline fighting range. Jeez, someone please stop this OKW OP and axis bias already.

On a serious note, VGs vet 4 and 5 gives flavor bonuses, because "OKW supposed to have 5 lvls of vet", aside from that it arguably gives you nothing in terms of combat perfomance.

Self heal is no joke, and the LOS will allow them to help the rest of the army as well as picking fights for themselves. Vision is criminally under valued by most on the forum here.

I think all volks need is a relook at their vet. It got gutted because of insta vet with shreks and hasn't been looked at since.

Whats more I also don't agree with the con accuracy nerf. Cons don't get centralized DPS to burst down models or concentrate DPS. They are one of the only units in the game (not counting CQB units) that are like this the extra 10% accuracy only let them cut through the combination of Vetted enemies and yellow cover saturation everywhere.
If it's too much of an issue just tie it to being in cover themselves, or make it an oorah bonus.

uhh... no thats not how the math works... 20% DR = 20% RA vs small arms fire...



uhh the brummbar had a rework not a nerf during 2018... check the patchnotes

Brummbar
The Brummbar is having its AOE adjusted to reduce its ability to wipe out full health units on the first shot, but still able to deal significant damage on misses.
• AOE distance changed from 1.25/2.5/3.75 to 0.625/1.25/6; applies to both auto-attack and bunker-buster
• AOE damage changed from 1/0.3/0.05 to 1/0.35/0.2; applies to both auto-attack and bunker-buster

meanwhile the brummbar got a buff during the 2020 patch

Brummbar

Due to its cost, lower than usual range, and casemate design, the Brummbar is having its armor nerf partially reverted to allow the unit to engage fortified positions.

Armour from 240 to 260




VSL and ostruppen are the current meta... what are you on??



thats on you then.. i see 3 min pgren plays pretty often...

Grenadiers had -23% RA at veterancy three before the change to DR, not 20%. Even with your maths here, 23% != 20%.

Self heal is no joke, and the LOS will allow them to help the rest of the army as well as picking fights for themselves. Vision is criminally under valued by most on the forum here.

I think all volks need is a relook at their vet. It got gutted because of insta vet with shreks and hasn't been looked at since.

Its not a joke on its own, but in game context it is a joke. Because we have Ost with pios who can spot from the get go, and we have Tommies who has more sight earlier aswell as having AOE self heal much earlier.

So it is indeed a joke. Just like molotov throwing time next to rifles molotov. As I said, its nice flavor vet bonuses, but its not more then that.

Soviets ver 4

Grenade Package

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--This is a step in the wrong direction.

Currently Molotov/AT grenade have a 205/20 cost and the change gives a 55/5 discount and combined with medic change that is a total of 105/5 fuel discount to Soviet tech. (and T2 already had its cost reduced in previous patch)

In addition the change increases the cost of AT access by 25/5.

Both changes are bad. Soviet tech in line with other factions and does need further a discounts.

Increasing the cost snare makes producing different units even less appealing.

If you go ahead with this change at least add some tech cost to satchel and/or for
Penals.


Tripwire Flare Mines

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Conscripts
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A change in the right direction

Mobilize Reserves (Conscript Munition Upgrade)
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Mobilize Reserves (Global Upgrade)
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Why should player have an "incentive to rush" for their final tier instead of playing the game in stage of the game?

M5 Half-Track
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T-34 Ram Ability
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This change will need some testing to see if avoiding off map is actually possible but removing the stun is a generally a good change and I have actually pointed out that stun is a big part of the problem.

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Other:
Consider converting some of the fuel cost of M3 to manpower

Consider increasing the XP value and/or cost CE since the have received a number of buffs and are now closer to other engineer units.

Its not a joke on its own, but in game context it is a joke. Because we have Ost with pios who can spot from the get go, and we have Tommies who has more sight earlier aswell as having AOE self heal much earlier.

So it is indeed a joke. Just like molotov throwing time next to rifles molotov. As I said, its nice flavor vet bonuses, but its not more then that.

The molitovs thing is a travesty which I've talked about before but to keep on about the heals and sight, these are great bonuses because they are extra- or rather should be, volks vet as a whole is lacking compared to other units but in context of those being fixed these are good boons.

Just because another unit can do it doesn't dilute THIS uniy doing it, because otherwise it can't.
Contextually it even makes sense for volks:
Pios are a starter unit on a very defensive faction. It let's ost keep tabs and be ready for what's about to come. It let's them position thir mg or pak ect.
Tommies, we're supposed to be defensive infantry, so the boons for pios sort of help in the same way.
Volks, late game we know fall off. The bonus let's them get their combined arms ready a bit sooner when defending or scout the enemy when attacking.
For Volks it lets the okw player decide if it's something volks can handle themselves or if they need help. It let's them spot flanks to their expensive armour ect
Its really a part of the evolution of volks as the match progresses. They become more defensive and more supportivem in theory of course.

Not to say there isn't room for improvement, but we mustn't down play an extra 7 radius of vision (so really an extra 14 range in diameter) across 4ish squads and the information that can yield.
The thing about Intel bonuses like this is that it's hard to quantify as you are using it without even knowing.