[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

The molitovs thing is a travesty which I've talked about before but to keep on about the heals and sight, these are great bonuses because they are extra- or rather should be, volks vet as a whole is lacking compared to other units but in context of those being fixed these are good boons.

Just because another unit can do it doesn't dilute THIS uniy doing it, because otherwise it can't.
Contextually it even makes sense for volks:
Pios are a starter unit on a very defensive faction. It let's ost keep tabs and be ready for what's about to come. It let's them position thir mg or pak ect.
Tommies, we're supposed to be defensive infantry, so the boons for pios sort of help in the same way.
Volks, late game we know fall off. The bonus let's them get their combined arms ready a bit sooner when defending or scout the enemy when attacking.
For Volks it lets the okw player decide if it's something volks can handle themselves or if they need help. It let's them spot flanks to their expensive armour ect
Its really a part of the evolution of volks as the match progresses. They become more defensive and more supportivem in theory of course.

Not to say there isn't room for improvement, but we mustn't down play an extra 7 radius of vision (so really an extra 14 range in diameter) across 4ish squads and the information that can yield.
The thing about Intel bonuses like this is that it's hard to quantify as you are using it without even knowing.

Honestly I think Molotovs being rather slow (until vet 2) is somewhat understandable, given that it's on COnscripts. Cons are very cheap, scale exceedingly well, and are loaded with a ton of utility. (Sandbags, Merge, Sprint, AP mines), on top of Molotovs being very cheap. (The ability, not the upgrade, though this is being somewhat alleviated in this next patch.)

In comparison:

Rifles cost more, get their Molotov through a doctrine, and have significantly less utility (Though they are superior combatants)

Volks cost more, scale far worse than Cons (Discounting their spike through STGs), pay more for each usage of "Molotov(Though it does have longer range), and have rather less utility as well. (Flame nade is slightly different to Molotov, sure, but it's fairly comparable)

It's a little annoying for the Soviet player that it seems to take forever to throw a vet0-1 Molotov, but I don't think it's quite as big an issue as people believe, if you take the ability in context of the unit (And faction)

Could Conscripts be made to throw molotovs at a reasonable speed, in their current state it takes far too long.

Could Conscripts be made to throw molotovs at a reasonable speed, in their current state it takes far too long.

Dont you love the Dance of the Rodina?

Yea, its extraordinaryily long for a throwing animation.

Dont you love the Dance of the Rodina?

I do love the Dance of the Rodina, but if we are to beat the Western Capitalists to Berlin the Conscripts must throw faster!

x to doubt... the T-70 got whacked hard and the soviets have not been adequately compensated since... and the faction in live still struggles hard in 1v1s and somewhat in 2v2s...

Ime soviets struggle harder in 4s then in 1s. As the t34 is useles without ram, cons and penals get focused closing hard by long range blobs of axis, leaving only td and katty as viable choices.

I dont crutch on the t70 as much in 1v1 but that depends on the doctrine though. I win some and loose some. I am by no means a top players maybe that has something to do with it.

These areas imo soviet struggled with in live and get fixed.
Healing and molly at nade price buff i like, this was overly costly for so long now. formation change on the mg,s and sustained fire buff i like, less eating nades frontaly is always good. Same with smoke and barrage not sharing a cooldown.

These are not helping the mid to late game.
Zis nerf not needed imo, it wasent one shotting stuff left and right. Quad aa nerf to harsh, its the only stock aa option for soviets and its quite squishy and comes out quite late. T70 nerfs to harsh since how important it is and nothing is given in return at this stage of the game. Su76 change i dont know havent tested it more then once.

Su85 pen nerf at vet is nothing major it still pen most if not all stock vehicles enough imo. Ram v4 is better then v1 v2 and v3.

Maybe should remove T34 ram can't move debuff?

The revert to the Mobilize Reserves changes is perplexing. It will once again be completely forgotten as a T3 tech, since it is often a waste of resources.

I would rather like to see it balanced around its cost and build time if needed, but remain a separate upgrade.

Edit - nevermind. I was ranting about Ram and didn't see the V4 changes.

Can the team have a look at the soviet fuel drop in industry and lend lease. Alot of the time the third crate get's destroyed by landing ontop of eachother. it's a quite annoyng bug.

Ime soviets struggle harder in 4s then in 1s....

I agree, with the addition that the AA nerf to the Quad probably should be accompanied by a price decrease.

I have occasionally seen where it shoots down a plane immediately. However, in the previous version it took forever, especially for a unit that you only buy for the AA ability. The 2 to 3 revert probably should be have went to 4 or 5.

Also, the SU76's vet 3 bonuses should be more like the Puma's - take out the barrage improvement and give it mobility and damage. That would make it more of a choice, as it would be decent at vet 3, assuming that you could get it to vet 3.

It also seems strange that the ISU is considered a balance problem but the Brummbar isn't. They both wipe squads in the same number of shots, but the Brummbar arrives much earlier and is non-doctrinal. It forces a retreat on almost every shot as the combination of one medium AOE and one long is enough to kill any model, so the chances of not getting wiped in two shots are small. I use both - the ISU doesn't seem that great until it gets vet, while the Brummbar is good at vet0. Also, with 800HP and over 200 armor, the Brummbar makes a good damage sponge.

Could Conscripts be made to throw molotovs at a reasonable speed, in their current state it takes far too long.

The argument that keeps being used is that the molotov starts damaging when it hits, instead of having the timer. The problem with that argument is that the DPS from the molotov starts low so you would have to sit in the flames awhile to do much of anything. It ends up making molotov's nearly worthless until cons have vet.

The argument that keeps being used is that the molotov starts damaging when it hits, instead of having the timer. The problem with that argument is that the DPS from the molotov starts low so you would have to sit in the flames awhile to do much of anything. It ends up making molotov's nearly worthless until cons have vet.

The damage of the Molotov is identical to the flame grenade.

Show Spoiler

i disagree. you have to pay for the privilege of even having molitovs. if the molitov was part of their standard kit, or vet ability, or unlocked through other means than buying it specifically- hell, even cheaper, i could agree with it being "crippled" but the way it is now its a joke of an ability unless you are vetted.
they USED to be cheap, but they have gotten price increases steadily- most con abilities have. oorah, molitov, trip flares.

the biggest issue with the long animation is that if the model throwing dies, you just wasted all that time, a model AND gained nothing from it.

The argument that keeps being used is that the molotov starts damaging when it hits, instead of having the timer. The problem with that argument is that the DPS from the molotov starts low so you would have to sit in the flames awhile to do much of anything. It ends up making molotov's nearly worthless until cons have vet.

damage is the same, the timer sort of helps offset the throw speed, but the real probelm is the combination of throws peed and range. frankly if the flame nade had molitov throw speed, but maintained its range and moltiov stayed short ranged and have a decent throw speed both abilities would be much more balanced. no more volks being able to frontally burn out a MG because the range and throw speed was faster than the suppression, and no more cons standing out in the open waiting for winter to warm Gerry up.

The damage of the Molotov is identical to the flame grenade.

yes but the molotov

1. takes a decade to throw (which puts the squad in danger)
2. has shorter range (by quite a bit)
3. is a paid upgrade (incend is free with tech)


the only real advantage the molotov has over incend is the fact that its 10 muni cheaper...

yes but the molotov

1. takes a decade to throw (which puts the squad in danger)
2. has shorter range (by quite a bit)
3. is a paid upgrade (incend is free with tech)


the only real advantage the molotov has over incend is the fact that its 10 muni cheaper...

That's a pretty nice advantage, though. There's also the OTHER advantage that it comes on a cheaper squad, that also has a sprint (And other utilities).

That's a pretty nice advantage, though. There's also the OTHER advantage that it comes on a cheaper squad, that also has a sprint (And other utilities).

yes a cheaper squad unless you count the (paid) sidegrades... at that point youre basically paying 291mp with a 4 conscript build...

maybe conscripts should perform like a 291mp squad ehh? or would you prefer having those sidegrades come free with tech?

yeah utilities sure... while conscripts have to suffer a total lack of midgame weapon upgrades...

hero t34-76 here

https://youtu.be/ZoN-mb-1-1Y?t=1242

it is pretty good with its manuvority and fast turret, just a bit too late.

Main gun crit OP

Main gun crit OP

it was a gamble to dive with so low health though..

MGC is great to have. haterz go away

yes a cheaper squad unless you count the (paid) sidegrades... at that point youre basically paying 291mp with a 4 conscript build...

maybe conscripts should perform like a 291mp squad ehh? or would you prefer having those sidegrades come free with tech?

yeah utilities sure... while conscripts have to suffer a total lack of midgame weapon upgrades...

"Midgame" is around when the T-70 hits. Unfortunately soviets are designed around a vehicular powerspike at that stage in the game, not an infantry borne one.