[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

You cant really play without snares tho, so you'd probably still end up with 2 ptrs penals.

The way I do T1 builds I usually get 1 Conscript squad for the snare and plant a bunch of mines. I guess after downgrading you can build a 2nd conscript?

I don't think you necessarily live or die by having a 3rd or 4th snare squad, even though it's useful.

If it unlocked at T4, when actual tanks start rolling out, I feel it wouldn't be as anti-everything, because against tanks they would only be able to do chip damage.

I agree, but that was the response I got so I can't really say much else about it.

The way I do T1 builds I usually get 1 Conscript squad for the snare and plant a bunch of mines. I guess after downgrading you can build a 2nd conscript?

I don't think you necessarily live or die by having a 3rd or 4th snare squad, even though it's useful.




I agree, but that was the response I got so I can't really say much else about it.

The problem with this right now is that you effectively pay 240 mp + at nade cost for one snare squad if you do this. Add this waste to an already slow T1 start and its just not gonna work out. What do you think about my Con Ptrs suggestion? I feel like this would be such a beautiful solution but i might be missing some non obvious consequences.

The problem with this right now is that you effectively pay 240 mp + at nade cost for one snare squad if you do this. Add this waste to an already slow T1 start and its just not gonna work out. What do you think about my Con Ptrs suggestion? I feel like this would be such a beautiful solution but i might be missing some non obvious consequences.

First of all, regarding the 1 conscript squad with T1, I do think it's quite useful for merging into frontline squads/weapons, recrewing to 6men and retreating, building sandbags, setting down flare mines, molotovs for garrisons and the beefiness that the 7man upgrade brings. I think every Penals build should include one conscript squad, it's extremely useful to have.

I wouldn't mind a watered down version of tank hunter conscripts being available stock to replace the awfully designed PTRS Penals package. Only 2 things I'd change is I'd remove camo, nade assault and mines that Tank hunter PTRS Cons get (the doctrinal upgrade would have to be buffed a bit as well to be worth picking) and I'd remove AT Satchel for Penals in exchange for a regular snare with the AT satchel range. I think it's an ok idea overall. Would be interesting to see.

All the ULVs should instantly die to mines and the M3 is no exception.

M3 -IS- the exception, it is the ONLY ultra light that DOES die to mines.

I am simply responding to your claim that "allies have better stock heavy td,s wich get their asses kicked by ele and jagdt" and pointing out that pound for pound Elefant lose those TDs. Once could make that claim when Elefant did 320 damage but that is not the case anymore.

Now think about the other way around and lets say Elefant gets nerfed and it can no longer win vs allied TDs frontally. How is factions Axis going to counter all the "better stock heavy td,s" allies get?

The elephant has a ridicoulously high pen, at max range even. Only the is2 has the armour to match that pen. The allied td's (their non doc top end game at) dont have the hp armour pen range or damage to engage a supported ele/jagd and come out victorius. Even in groups or spam. You will mostly just waste your units and force a repair on the ele/jagd that is a bad how ever you see it.

What would hapen if the jagd and ele get nerfed? As you said for allies to take out an ele, axis need to smoke (wich axis have plenty of doctrinaly) and flank (with blitz wich was its intended use) only they have more powerfull tanks and stronger hh at doctrinal at straving at planes.

Axis are not crutching on ele jagd because they need to. Its because they can.

Allies are crutching on td's or doctrinals because they have to. In team games at least.

I don't like that the M3 has its eHP reduced against small arms fire.

It will make repairing it take more time and make it easier to just blob it down.

All the ULVs should instantly die to mines and the M3 is no exception.

Remember that the M3 carries a squad most of the time which significantly increases the potential punishment for hitting a mine. Plus it requires a tech commitment and costs fuel itself. It's just too big of a commitment to die to one mine.

If it unlocked at T4, when actual tanks start rolling out, I feel it wouldn't be as anti-everything, because against tanks they would only be able to do chip damage.

Alternatively, if we're looking for something unique and unexplored, allow them to swap between SVT and PTRS, but only in the HQ sector.

This is pretty much the same. You only need PTRS against LV anyway and allowing to change back to SVTs after LV phase means that you would have a braindead choice with no drawbacks. And getting PTRS must have a drawback since it's true for every other AT carrying infantry

Imo m3 could lose the fuel and the ability for passenger to shoot.

Allowing passenger to shoot could be an upgrade for 15-30 mu.

The change would make the unit cheaper while also delaying shock value.

M3 and similar unit could also have pop reduced with vet level so they are less of pop drain in late game.(copied from another thread)

Delay the shock value of a beginning of match unit with no late game capacity. seems legit. It late game pop cap isn't much an issue as it wont exist in most cases.

I can still imagine a timeline on which T1 received the 45mm AT gun and PTRS Penals were not a thing, only receiving the sticky satchel.


Trying to balance PTRS as an AT weapon is a nightmare. Cause it's either inconsequential or it achieves critical mass and it becomes stupid and viable.

Have you thought about making T3 optional and not required for T4. Instead, to unlock T4 you need 2 of the previous tiers. For example, you could go T1+T2 into T4( I think this wouldn't be too good since you are sacrificing the mid-game presence with t70 to rush out the t34 ). This could also be an indirect buff to penals since you don't need to backtech to get the ZIS gun or Maxim.

A really nice possibility to explore. I like it.

I can still imagine a timeline on which T1 received the 45mm AT gun and PTRS Penals were not a thing, only receiving the sticky satchel.


Trying to balance PTRS as an AT weapon is a nightmare. Cause it's either inconsequential or it achieves critical mass and it becomes stupid and viable.

that would be ideal imo. Would you replace the sniper or the M3? Or have 4 units in the tier? I'd see bunkers in place of the m42 in both commanders tbh but could see the sniper being remade as a doctrinal unit more akin to JLI but capped at 1 squad as well

that would be ideal imo. Would you replace the sniper or the M3? Or have 4 units in the tier? I'd see bunkers in place of the m42 in both commanders tbh but could see the sniper being remade as a doctrinal unit more akin to JLI but capped at 1 squad as well

Why replace? Just add it. It's not like the M3 sees use outside of cheese for the first 5 mins of the game and sniper is pretty niche at the moment. God forbid the tier has at least 2 viable units pass the 10 min mark.

Axis heavy TDs already have big vulnerabilities. Hell, both ISU commanders come with IL2 bombs that make short work of them.

uhh they do have big vulnerabilities in 1v1 and 2v2 but in 4v4 the sheer amount of AOE fire by the assortment of brummbars stukas pwerfs and LEFHs plus the AT gun saturation covers those deficiencies... if youre a 4v4 regular you would know how it is harder to counter a properly supported jagd or ele in a teamgame....

another big factor here is that the allied equivalent to the LEFH... the ML20 is just shit in comparison and will lose a shootout to an LEFH almost reliably... the sexton meawhile has much shorter range and cannot be used as counterbattery and the priest isnt exactly a popular choice since not everyone is a fan of infantry doc...


and ram was just removed from the game soo mentioning IL-2 isnt a decent option anymore...

uhh they do have big vulnerabilities in 1v1 and 2v2 but in 4v4 the sheer amount of AOE fire by the assortment of brummbars stukas pwerfs and LEFHs plus the AT gun saturation covers those deficiencies... if youre a 4v4 regular you would know how it is harder to counter a properly supported jagd or ele in a teamgame....

another big factor here is that the allied equivalent to the LEFH... the ML20 is just shit in comparison and will lose a shootout to an LEFH almost reliably... the sexton meawhile has much shorter range and cannot be used as counterbattery and the priest isnt exactly a popular choice since not everyone is a fan of infantry doc...


and ram was just removed from the game soo mentioning IL-2 isnt a decent option anymore...

Rocket arty and AT guns are only available to axis players in 4v4? Weird, the balance team should really address that.

Ram is not the only way to nail a heavy tank with IL2 bombs, it's just the cheesiest, low effort way. Nor is it hard to get a t34 to vet 1 in any case.

Rocket arty and AT guns are only available to axis players in 4v4? Weird, the balance team should really address that.

the katyusha just got nerfed and the panzerwerfer got a massive buff... meanwhile the landmattress is still a meme and the stuka zu fuss still dominates teamgames... only the calliOP outclasses axis rocket arty and its doctrinal...

AT gun saturation on the allied side is countered by the nondoc axis rocket artillery and superior tube artillery (LefH)... as of live the allies have 2 rocket arty pieces... but if this dumbass patch is launched that allied rocket arty piece is gonna get a hefty nerf while the axis one gets a hefty buff...

Ram is not the only way to nail a heavy tank with IL2 bombs, it's just the cheesiest, low effort way. Nor is it hard to get a t34 to vet 1 in any case.

if you think gating ram in its current state with veterancy is a good idea then youve lost it entirely... ram is too inconsistent in its current state to gate with veterancy since the ability essentially costs 300mp and 90 fuel stun a tank for 5 seconds and maybe damage the engine... its THE MOST expensive snare in the game....

Btw speaking of PTRS.

I've looked at its stats and here what they are:
Damage: 14
Deflection multiplayer: 0.25
Number of shots: 5
Delay between shots: 1 second
Reload: 3 seconds
Penetration: 70\85\100

So considering penals\Guards have 2 PTRS, they theoretically can deliver 140 damage in 5 seconds if all hits are penetrated.
If I'm not looking at wrong ROF stats that is.
Show Spoiler

My point is, considering that PTRS already is able to penetrate any LVs pretty much all the time, but its quite unreliable vs tanks, why not just increase its penetration value?


Penetration is what holding its back really. If let say penetration is increased, to provide reliable damage to mediums (which tecnically can aswell benifit biting more heavier targets), it can increase its late game value.

It sure wont be as good as other inf based AT option (because of alpha striking), but at least it would be good enouth to consider it soviet inf based AT option.

In comparison rifle zook (which is the weakest in terms of penetration) has:
110\120\130 penetration.

PTRS imho easily can go for
90\110\120 penetration


On a side note, tommy boys AT rifles has deflection damage of 0.35.

Hell no on PTRS penetration buff. It would be a megabuff to Guards blobs which would clown mediums.

the katyusha just got nerfed and the panzerwerfer got a massive buff... meanwhile the landmattress is still a meme and the stuka zu fuss still dominates teamgames... only the calliOP outclasses axis rocket arty and its doctrinal...

AT gun saturation on the allied side is countered by the nondoc axis rocket artillery and superior tube artillery (LefH)... as of live the allies have 2 rocket arty pieces... but if this dumbass patch is launched that allied rocket arty piece is gonna get a hefty nerf while the axis one gets a hefty buff

Clearly you haven't even tried out the patch mod. The bugfix to the katy precision strike is a massive buff and cooldowns for rocket arty were nerfed equally across the board.

Btw speaking of PTRS.
...
If I'm not looking at wrong ROF stats that is.
...

PTRS does bonus damage via target tables:

Penals:
Target type infantry
Accuracy multi 1
Damage multi 1.428571

Extra damage 26, Requires types: vehicle
Extra damage 13, Requires types: NOT infantry NOT vehicle

Guards:
Target type infantry
Accuracy multi 1
Damage multi 1.928571

Extra damage 26, Requires types: vehicle
Extra damage 13, Requires types: NOT infantry NOT vehicle