[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 05:06 AMT.R. Stormjäger

???

ISU’s AP shell range would obviously go down to 60 as well.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 07:35 AMVipper

No read the patch notes or test the preview:
ISU-152
The ISU-152 is have its HE range shortened, forcing it to expose itself when engaging soft targets. Previously the ISU-152 could stay back, behind AT assets when using these potent AI rounds. Concrete Piercing rounds have been changed to now always penetrate their target and have a reduced cost.
- HE range from 70 to 60
- Rear armor from 150 to 110
- ISU Piercing Shot cost from 70 to 60
- ISU Piercing Shot penetration now set to 1000

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 07:53 AMmrgame2

a 60 range elefant needs a rof boost then, make it shoot as fast as su85.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 12:29 PMGiaA

Show Spoiler

Problems with the Sniper change:

Makes sniping MGs frontally impossible especially considering their new formation. This means you always have to run into the MG with infantry first. This won't be a viable option on high level because your infantry can't protect the sniper if it's pinned.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 12:38 PMLetzte Bataillon

This a scenario where a mortar becomes very desirable. Combined arms effectiveness is the COH2 gold standard.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 12:38 PMLetzte Bataillon

This a scenario where a mortar becomes very desirable. Combined arms effectiveness is the COH2 gold standard.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 12:40 PMKatitof

This is a scenario, where one intended hardcounter gets neutered and you are forced to use another, already inferior one.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 12:43 PMGiaA

In actual gameplay mortar doesn't have this direct impact most of the time tho. Mg will just reposition slightly. And btw mortar doesn't self spot either so it requires you to run into the mg too unless you guess correctly. Sniper can actually push it.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 12:46 PMLetzte Bataillon

No.

Considering all mortar-like units have smoke in addition to their barrage, they are obviously the intended MG counter in combination with infantry.


Snipers are an oddity and not an intended hardcounter (if it were so, USF/OKW would have one to be playable) that keeps inflicting losses to enemy infantry-based units from long range as a high risk/high reward choice.


The interplay between team weapons (MG+Artillery+ATG triad), infantry and vehicles is the core of COH2. Snipers are an extra on top of that, for certain armies.



In my opinion, mortars are working as intended. If mortar smoke or barrage pressure isn't followed by an infantry assault against the MG, that is the attacking player's fault.

Snipers shouldn't be able to push away an MG by themselves, unsupported, which the current preview patch addresses.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 13:20 PMT.R. Stormjäger

I would undo the sniper change and go with the option of giving snipers 0.75x their current speed while walking around and 1x their current retreat speed while retreating. That way unsupported snipers can be countered by running after them.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 13:36 PMGiaA

That's too extreme of a nerf. This basically removes all their offensive potential. Would 100% render snipers nonviable. Snipers need to somehow be punished me for getting under fire but without crippling them too much or having them die quicker.

Edit: sorry for double post

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 07:53 AMmrgame2

a 60 range elefant needs a rof boost then, make it shoot as fast as su85.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 13:20 PMT.R. Stormjäger

I would undo the sniper change and go with the option of giving snipers 0.75x their current speed while walking around and 1x their current retreat speed while retreating. That way unsupported snipers can be countered by running after them.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 13:20 PMT.R. Stormjäger

I would undo the sniper change and go with the option of giving snipers 0.75x their current speed while walking around and 1x their current retreat speed while retreating. That way unsupported snipers can be countered by running after them.