correct me on this but ISU152 changes hardly kill its meta.
the rear armor nerf is truly fair. no questions. it is still a faster tank than elefant...
while it loses 10 range of AI, do you need 70 range against infantry? as in, the original range was overkill and unfair.
Its AT got the buff.
[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion
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3 Dec 2020, 06:39 AM
#221
Posts: 1794
3 Dec 2020, 06:58 AM
#223
Posts: 366
I can relate with the last sentence, except it still dosnt work.
Anyway the Isu is fine, rear armor nerf is warranted and it clapping infantry (especially once vetted) at range was annoying.
With mark vehical in one of the commanders till makes it very potent against tanks (if it couldn't bounce it would be the most potent).
3 Dec 2020, 07:35 AM
#224
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
???
ISU’s AP shell range would obviously go down to 60 as well.
No read the patch notes or test the preview:
ISU-152
The ISU-152 is have its HE range shortened, forcing it to expose itself when engaging soft targets. Previously the ISU-152 could stay back, behind AT assets when using these potent AI rounds. Concrete Piercing rounds have been changed to now always penetrate their target and have a reduced cost.
- HE range from 70 to 60
- Rear armor from 150 to 110
- ISU Piercing Shot cost from 70 to 60
- ISU Piercing Shot penetration now set to 1000
3 Dec 2020, 07:41 AM
#225
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
No read the patch notes or test the preview:
ISU-152
The ISU-152 is have its HE range shortened, forcing it to expose itself when engaging soft targets. Previously the ISU-152 could stay back, behind AT assets when using these potent AI rounds. Concrete Piercing rounds have been changed to now always penetrate their target and have a reduced cost.
- HE range from 70 to 60
- Rear armor from 150 to 110
- ISU Piercing Shot cost from 70 to 60
- ISU Piercing Shot penetration now set to 1000
Can you even read? I said if the Elefant was nerfed to 60 range, the ISU’s AP would go down go 60.
English hard?
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3 Dec 2020, 07:53 AM
#226
Posts: 1794
a 60 range elefant needs a rof boost then, make it shoot as fast as su85.
3 Dec 2020, 08:39 AM
#227
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
a 60 range elefant needs a rof boost then, make it shoot as fast as su85.
A 60 range ISU needs one too.
Make it shoot as fast as Brummbar.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Dec 2020, 12:29 PM
#228
Posts: 713 | Subs: 2
Problems with the Sniper change:
Makes sniping MGs frontally impossible especially considering their new formation. This means you always have to run into the MG with infantry first. This won't be a viable option on high level because your infantry can't protect the sniper if it's pinned.
3 Dec 2020, 12:38 PM
#229
Posts: 195
Problems with the Sniper change:
Makes sniping MGs frontally impossible especially considering their new formation. This means you always have to run into the MG with infantry first. This won't be a viable option on high level because your infantry can't protect the sniper if it's pinned.
This a scenario where a mortar becomes very desirable. Combined arms effectiveness is the COH2 gold standard.
3 Dec 2020, 12:40 PM
#230
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
This a scenario where a mortar becomes very desirable. Combined arms effectiveness is the COH2 gold standard.
This is a scenario, where one intended hardcounter gets neutered and you are forced to use another, already inferior one.
If you need 2 units to overcome HMG, you might just as well ignore sniper, get another mainline inf and flank it from edges of arc.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Dec 2020, 12:43 PM
#231
Posts: 713 | Subs: 2
This a scenario where a mortar becomes very desirable. Combined arms effectiveness is the COH2 gold standard.
In actual gameplay mortar doesn't have this direct impact most of the time tho. Mg will just reposition slightly. And btw mortar doesn't self spot either so it requires you to run into the mg too unless you guess correctly. Sniper can actually push it.
3 Dec 2020, 12:46 PM
#232
Posts: 195
This is a scenario, where one intended hardcounter gets neutered and you are forced to use another, already inferior one.
No.
Considering all mortar-like units have smoke in addition to their barrage, they are obviously the intended MG counter in combination with infantry.
Snipers are an oddity and not an intended hardcounter (if it were so, USF/OKW would have one to be playable) that keeps inflicting losses to enemy infantry-based units from long range as a high risk/high reward choice.
The interplay between team weapons (MG+Artillery+ATG triad), infantry and vehicles is the core of COH2. Snipers are an extra on top of that, for certain armies.
In actual gameplay mortar doesn't have this direct impact most of the time tho. Mg will just reposition slightly. And btw mortar doesn't self spot either so it requires you to run into the mg too unless you guess correctly. Sniper can actually push it.
In my opinion, mortars are working as intended. If mortar smoke or barrage pressure isn't followed by an infantry assault against the MG, that is the attacking player's fault.
Snipers shouldn't be able to push away an MG by themselves, unsupported, which the current preview patch addresses.
3 Dec 2020, 13:20 PM
#233
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
I would undo the sniper change and go with the option of giving snipers 0.75x their current speed while walking around and 1x their current retreat speed while retreating. That way unsupported snipers can be countered by running after them.
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3 Dec 2020, 13:33 PM
#234
Posts: 713 | Subs: 2
No.
Considering all mortar-like units have smoke in addition to their barrage, they are obviously the intended MG counter in combination with infantry.
Snipers are an oddity and not an intended hardcounter (if it were so, USF/OKW would have one to be playable) that keeps inflicting losses to enemy infantry-based units from long range as a high risk/high reward choice.
The interplay between team weapons (MG+Artillery+ATG triad), infantry and vehicles is the core of COH2. Snipers are an extra on top of that, for certain armies.
In my opinion, mortars are working as intended. If mortar smoke or barrage pressure isn't followed by an infantry assault against the MG, that is the attacking player's fault.
Snipers shouldn't be able to push away an MG by themselves, unsupported, which the current preview patch addresses.
Valid points. I sympathize with your view and it's definitely not incorrect. Comes down to opinion on how snipers are supposed to function. But think about it this way. Should a sniper be stopped by an MG? Because that is pretty much what would happen. I just think in competitive 1v1 being able to snipe an MG frontally is too much of an essential function to just remove it.
3 Dec 2020, 13:36 PM
#235
Posts: 713 | Subs: 2
I would undo the sniper change and go with the option of giving snipers 0.75x their current speed while walking around and 1x their current retreat speed while retreating. That way unsupported snipers can be countered by running after them.
That's too extreme of a nerf. This basically removes all their offensive potential. Would 100% render snipers nonviable. Snipers need to somehow be punished me for getting under fire but without crippling them too much or having them die quicker.
Edit: sorry for double post
3 Dec 2020, 13:44 PM
#236
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
That's too extreme of a nerf. This basically removes all their offensive potential. Would 100% render snipers nonviable. Snipers need to somehow be punished me for getting under fire but without crippling them too much or having them die quicker.
Edit: sorry for double post
Maybe try the Jibber version of this idea where the speed debuff is only triggered when someone shoots at the sniper/sniper enters combat?
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3 Dec 2020, 14:15 PM
#237
Posts: 1289
a 60 range elefant needs a rof boost then, make it shoot as fast as su85.
400 armour and 300 damage and 400ish pen isent enough?
So when axis get the same treatment buffs are required somehow. Figures.
3 Dec 2020, 14:43 PM
#238
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
I would undo the sniper change and go with the option of giving snipers 0.75x their current speed while walking around and 1x their current retreat speed while retreating. That way unsupported snipers can be countered by running after them.
This would make any early sniper non-viable as they can just be rushed in early engagements. It would also hurt the soviet sniper especially since it can't hide behind an MG outside of DHSK doctrine.
Imo the snipers were fine and I don't know why they were nerfed like this.
3 Dec 2020, 15:04 PM
#239
Posts: 179
Just getting rid of the retreat ability on Snipers would be enough.
They can continue to kite forever, but any screwup leaves them unable to escape.
They can continue to kite forever, but any screwup leaves them unable to escape.
3 Dec 2020, 15:25 PM
#240
Posts: 1701
I would undo the sniper change and go with the option of giving snipers 0.75x their current speed while walking around and 1x their current retreat speed while retreating. That way unsupported snipers can be countered by running after them.
That is one excellent change
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