I can't help but feel, that this unit, which costs 200 MP ( less than a Kubel and on top of that no fuel ) is overperforming. I mean sure ... you need to pay 45 ammo to upgrade it with an MG, but you can transport troops with it (even when upgraded) , you can mark vehicles with it, you can call arty with it in and it can even repair itself ( by that I mean the crew can repair it ) and it can capture points. Just compare this to the other equivalents of the WC 51.
Kubel: non doctrinal, Costs a bit more MP, can also cap points, can not transport any troops and overall sucks against infantry, let alone light vehicles. Gets slaughtered by WC 51
UC: non doctrinal, can repair itself ( for ammo ), Can transport troops when without upgrade, is decent against infantry, more MP and Ammo needed, can not cap points, more time passes till it can be upgraded
OKW 221: doctrinal, can not cap points, Needs fuel, can repair itself ( for ammo ), okish against infantry, has some useful abilities ( of which one you will probably never use as it need vet 5 for it ) , can obv. not transport infantry, no ammo needed. Will get beaten by WC 51
In my opinion the WC 51s MG should deal far less damage. Especailly against light vehicles like the OKWs 221 or the 251. Even without a great MG it still has much to offer.
One thing that is also worth mentioning imo is that the UC got nerfed and its upgrades stuck behind T1 because it was too good. So why doesn't the same apply to the WC 51? Why isn't it considered too good. After all it gets its Upgrade earlier than the UC ( and even earlier than the old UC) and even has more and better abilities than the UC ( flamethrower left aside )
Is the WC 51 overperforming ?
4 Aug 2020, 11:51 AM
#1
Posts: 518
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
4 Aug 2020, 11:53 AM
#2
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
It'll likely will lose arty if we get another patch.
But that's a big "if" considering the fact that there is a grand total of zero people on coh2 with technical knowledge needed to build any kind of patch from relic side now.
But that's a big "if" considering the fact that there is a grand total of zero people on coh2 with technical knowledge needed to build any kind of patch from relic side now.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 Aug 2020, 12:23 PM
#3
Posts: 1273
I have not seen a single WC51 ever in 2on2 as OST player. Do you have any replays or casts?
4 Aug 2020, 12:46 PM
#4
Posts: 321
Always felt like the WC51 doesn't need the arty ability. Maybe replace it with something like a suppresive fire ability (copy of the UC ability) or some other minor buffs.
The unit, no doubt, is very good even without vet. Atleast when I play USF I always use Mech
The unit, no doubt, is very good even without vet. Atleast when I play USF I always use Mech
- Who has time? ... But then if we do not ever take time, how can we ever have time? huh?
4 Aug 2020, 12:51 PM
#5
Posts: 766 | Subs: 2
For me, the arty and mark target ability is a way to cram more abilities into the doctrine to go past the 5 doctrine slots. This is why I prefer an available upgrade to make it a supply truck like the opel blitz.
4 Aug 2020, 13:15 PM
#6
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
it is underperforming plain and simple.
(things OP missed:
range advantage
passenger can compared to UC where passenger can not shoot
Comes in the same commander slot as M3 )
(things OP missed:
range advantage
passenger can compared to UC where passenger can not shoot
Comes in the same commander slot as M3 )
4 Aug 2020, 13:15 PM
#7
Posts: 184
Take away its ability to turn into a formula 1 car for free, its ability to outrange infantry, its ability to carry squads, its ability to mark target and its ability to call in artillery and it will STILL be 10x better than the kubel, a unit that is actually more expensive.
Yes it is overpeforming.
Yes it is overpeforming.
4 Aug 2020, 13:29 PM
#8
Posts: 138
Another thing to add at full HP it can survive double faust.
The WC1 just needs a few tweaks on its most broken features like reduce HP so it dies to double faust, reduce the range of the MG so infantry can fire back, possibly nerf its vet1 ability so it doesn't just sprint out of danger with no hope of catching up and maybe remove mark target or arty and give it to M3 halftrack.
The WC1 just needs a few tweaks on its most broken features like reduce HP so it dies to double faust, reduce the range of the MG so infantry can fire back, possibly nerf its vet1 ability so it doesn't just sprint out of danger with no hope of catching up and maybe remove mark target or arty and give it to M3 halftrack.
4 Aug 2020, 13:30 PM
#9
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Another thing to add at full HP it can survive double faust.
All ultra lights can except M3 and if M3 was to get Mirageflas changes, so would it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 Aug 2020, 14:57 PM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
it is underperforming plain and simple.
(things OP missed:
range advantage
passenger can compared to UC where passenger can not shoot
Comes in the same commander slot as M3 )
Over.
The unit does so many things other similar units would want or already have.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
4 Aug 2020, 15:05 PM
#11
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
it is underperforming plain and simple.
(things OP missed:
range advantage
passenger can compared to UC where passenger can not shoot
Comes in the same commander slot as M3 )
While I agree, I think the last one is a commander issue and not one of the unit itself.
4 Aug 2020, 15:26 PM
#12
Posts: 124
WC 51 is fine with its features. Never forget if you guys double faust it its gone. And every axis faction have got faust.
4 Aug 2020, 15:27 PM
#13
Posts: 1389 | Subs: 1
The only "not ok" about WC51 is capability to shot down planes with M2HB. AFAIK it's the only fuel-free AA in the game.
4 Aug 2020, 15:28 PM
#14
Posts: 124
The only "not ok" about WC51 is capability to shot down planes with M2HB. AFAIK it's the only fuel-free AA in the game.
its not one shot planes with M2HB. Just damage. Remember you can double faust it and its dead.
4 Aug 2020, 15:48 PM
#15
Posts: 1351
Horribly OP unit. The simplest balance method would be to remove the crew.
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
(24.03.2020): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM
(25.06.2020): http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198035553470/standings
4 Aug 2020, 16:06 PM
#16
Posts: 281
Please consider it is a doctrinal unit. Should've something more than a stock unit.
4 Aug 2020, 16:39 PM
#17
Posts: 1220
1. strong only in 1v1
2. no one cares about 1v1
2. no one cares about 1v1
4 Aug 2020, 18:03 PM
#18
Posts: 1794
It is a nonsense unit even for 2v2.
WC51 >>> 222.
WC51 >>> 222.
5 Aug 2020, 04:47 AM
#19
Posts: 518
its not one shot planes with M2HB. Just damage.
A single WC 51 can shoot down a 60 ammo recon plane in about 30 seconds (without the player doing anything ). The 35 Ammo recon plane can even be shot down instantly by double WC 51 ( and can be shot down by a single WC 51 if used correctly / lucky and with Vet. )
Remember you can double faust it and its dead
Remember the WC 51 has wheels and can move.
Also: Spending 50 Ammo and some Manpower ( you will lose some models when charging it ) to kill a 200 MP and 45 Ammo unit isn't exactly what I would consider a great deal
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
5 Aug 2020, 05:25 AM
#20
Posts: 132
I guess the commander does not have a good late game and thats why it tries to balance it out by a very good 0cp unit. 76mm fails to do anything, I mean who would make a 76mm to counter T4 units of axis, it is bad in AI as compared to M4 and bad in AT as compared to Jackson. Has the same armor and hp as m4 so 4 shots kill it and not much bounces frontally when it goes against p4. I don't know why is it even present for USF, very unused commander if not for early meme games.
If you do nerf WC 51 then the commander would be totally useless.
If you do nerf WC 51 then the commander would be totally useless.
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