5man grens OP?

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 21:03 PMFire and Terror

BTW i feel like axis struggeled so hard becouse of brits being very strong forcing the OKW into puma (valentine) and recking ostheer T3 with comet, leaving the only choice into double pak and stupa

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 21:07 PMT.R. Stormjäger

I think Ost did fine overall with pak40 and the T4 units. Mostly OKW seemed to suffer from playing vs UKF. I think if OKW was in a better spot then we'd see more balanced win rates instead of allies by a landslide.

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 21:14 PMblvckdream

Yeah when you think back to it it was usually the OKW player struggling hard and Ostheer carrying to some limited extent. IIRC Noggano, Artavick and Devm were struggling hard in most of their Axis games usually having less pop than the Ostheer player and having no map-control. CN and Seeking were more balanced somehow.

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 17:31 PMIncendiaryRounds

I just asked Dane, on Twitch, he said his original words were that "if anything was REMOTELY op on Ostheer, it would be the 5man grens." So yeah, 5man grens MIGHT be ever sooooo slightly OP. And not surprisingly, that is an absolute blasphemy to the likes of SuperAlliedFan. Not surprised he made this thread.

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 12:42 PMKatitof

They were used in 100% games where axis won.
The game when they were not used was lost badly.

I can see no other conclusion, but to dub them an overpowered game changer.

Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2020, 03:54 AMSuperHansFan

I agree

Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2020, 04:01 AMthedarkarmadillo

Since we're talking about the durability of grens and the late game need, imma again pitch that t4 gives grens a damage reduction and vet gives a rec acc buff again.
Probably be sticky with the existing 5 man grens but that can be adjusted separately.

Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2020, 04:01 AMthedarkarmadillo

The goal is that all core units are viable without doctrinal modifiers. Especially core infantry squads. Cons got their much needed adjustment, grens are as in need as ever and their viability shouldn't live and die by them being fully vetted

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 21:03 PMFire and Terror

and are the most durable sqad in game (with 7 men conscripts) becouse of 20% dmg reduction at vet 3

Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2020, 07:50 AMSander93

They get the damage reduction instead of lower received accuracy, so that only gives them an advantage against the lethal (80 dmg) radius of some explosives like rocket artillery or grenades. Against small arms however they are not even close to vetted 7 men Conscripts (~570 effective hp vs Cons' 790 effective hp), and worse than 5 men Infantry Sections (645) and squads like Commandos (615) or Rangers (770) or even 4 men Obers (640). The damage reduction also doesn't help against the lethal radius of bigger weapons like tanks or artillery because their lethal AOE radius is higher than 100 damage, and their high received accuracy / target size at vet 3 (0.91) makes them more likely to take damage from small arms which partly cancels out their damage reduction advantage against explosives. They are a durable squad for sure, but I wouldn't call them the most durable squad in the game.

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 17:33 PMT.R. Stormjäger

Allies won in a landslide across the tournament and all we’re seeing is “nerf axis” threads. That tells you all you need to know about how meme levels of pointless these threads are.

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 18:01 PMIncendiaryRounds

This is what I've been saying since the beginning of time....

Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2020, 18:53 PMAngrade (Ægion)

I did some testing. 5 man grens are weaker than 7 man conscripts and double bar riflemen when each are at vet 3. The 5 man upgrade also adds 10% RA bonus as well as free medkits. The free medkits are important because it gives longevity. If there were any nerfs the Medkits could go first and well as adjust the RA bonus to 7-5%. The doctrine itself is not super strong and most abilities are situational. Stormtroopers are still not useful and the 250 is nice for pioneers but that is about it. Assault and hold can be nice but I do not see it often enough and the fragmentation bombs are good but expensive.