Making OKW Battlegroup viable

I'd like to see the following:

- Sturmpioneers can upgrade a second Panzerschreck if Battlegroup is up, as a form of alternative AT.
- Stuka from Mechanized to Schwerer, with how essential it is in teamgames. Suggested by Geblobt.
- You can make a Medic squad from Mechanized once Schwerer is up.

Battlegroup gets limited AT, Mechanized gets limited healing.

1- Make OKW Flak HT get bonus damage against vehicles. It was never able to deal with any HT or heavier light vehicles when it dealt 20dmg and had a bug which allow it to start deploying on the move.

Rollback that 4dmg against vehicles only or even increase it to 24dmg total. IMO the dynamic should be that the Flak should kill other HT if deployed. Against other lights it should deal a bit more chip dmg.

2-

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If we talk about a reshuffle of this tier:

Option A: Medics arrive by default and the things you have to unlock are the reinforce + FRP

Option B: Medics cost fuel upgrade replace with a munition component instead.

While i would like a half tech for Battlegroup, i think it would feel weird design wise if this didn't had a mirror case with Mechanized as well.

The problem with the Stuka is that it's either overkill against garrisons/support weapons or unreliable against UKF emplacements (which i'm not sure why u don't want it to deal similar dmg as other rocket arty by giving it AoE pen).

If you had a Stuka, you shouldn't have to rely on ISG to counter simcity.

My alternative rework to the Stuka would be to give it free Flame barrage by default and cut it's fuel cost by half. Unlocking the HE barrage at Flak HQ built and requiring an upgrade for the difference in the current cost.

3-

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I would just make the SP single shreck be allowed with the minesweeper upgrade. The downside would be no longer been able to tow it down and no repair benefit if both are up.

...(which i'm not sure why u don't want it to deal similar dmg as other rocket arty by giving it AoE pen).
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I agree with many of the staff here and have made similar suggestion in the past.

A minor correction of typo. Stuka has AOE penetration the normal penetration is 0 probably due to a bug/oversight.

Maybe could little nerf Ober,and move ober to medic HQ，or give medic HQ PanzerIII or P4.F？

I agree with many of the staff here and have made similar suggestion in the past.

A minor correction of typo. Stuka has AOE penetration the normal penetration is 0 probably due to a bug/oversight.

Yes, typo. The AoE is fine, it's the direct hits that are "bugged".

Yes, typo. The AoE is fine, it's the direct hits that are "bugged".

Imo the AOE is probably too high the two values should be allot closer (certainly the weapon should not have penetration value of 0)

One other method of making Battlegroup HQ more viable would be to make the Flak HT less situational. Compared to any other halftrack it sees way less use while M5, M15 and 251 are regularly used units each with distinctive benefits.

On paper the Flak HT has good damage (which gets kinda goofy at vet 2 if you actually manage to get it to vet up in regular combat) but the damage rarely gets realized due to the long setup time.

I wonder if a similar solution that was made to M5 Quad could work for Flak HT as well. Quad shreds infantry stationary and offers excellent suppression whereas on the move the damage is significantly reduced and suppression removed but it can still finish off weakened light vehicles and chase infantry on the move.

I'd remove the initial setup time for the Flak so it would start firing right away and actually do light damage instead of just forcing enemy to soft retreat. The suppression and high damage could then be tied to the setup time so Flak HT would punish units that stay in the line of for too long. Meanwhile good opponents would have time to retreat before the suppression starts forcing retreats. That way Flak HT could be used more aggressively but without making it too oppressive and rewarding players who preemptively position it.

Flak HT doesn't really need anything.

Its very strong unit that doesn't give a shit about opponents cover, it'll just break through it and instapin squad.

Only infantry AT that can fight it are ATGs as it pins everything else in first volley.

However its more fragile and less mobile then luchs, doesn't come with obligatory puma protection.

What Sander said makes most sense here, if you think there is anything wrong with flak ht, you clearly haven't used it for so long you completely forgot how it fares.

And the fact this partial unlock design works so well is only a proof of superio coh1 PE tech design.

If this thread doesn´t bring up some changes, i don´t know whats gonna be.
It got so many views in just 2 days. I think people are looking for a good change.

I'd like to see the following:

- Sturmpioneers can upgrade a second Panzerschreck if Battlegroup is up, as a form of alternative AT.
- Stuka from Mechanized to Schwerer, with how essential it is in teamgames. Suggested by Geblobt.
- You can make a Medic squad from Mechanized once Schwerer is up.

Battlegroup gets limited AT, Mechanized gets limited healing.

Yep And the previous ideas were also gr8.

Shocker: it is viable

just because pro players dont think its the most effective and thus creating a meta, doesnt mean it cannot be played to full effect
btw. this could change any day. if some pro team decides to go with healing hq and makes it work, tomorrow youll have a topic saying "make mechanized" viable

pointless

Shocker: it is viable

just because pro players dont think its the most effective and thus creating a meta, doesnt mean it cannot be played to full effect
btw. this could change any day. if some pro team decides to go with healing hq and makes it work, tomorrow youll have a topic saying "make mechanized" viable

pointless

Viable? I guess so.

Similarly effective, reliable and anywhere close to being as prominent as Mech HQ? Hell no.

Shocker: it is viable

True. Yet, it would be even more viable with the division idea similar to USF techs or schwerer. Build more cheaply, get sth, add and upgrade, get sth more.

True. Yet, it would be even more viable with the division idea similar to USF techs or schwerer. Build more cheaply, get sth, add and upgrade, get sth more.

ye i dont know why Relic (is it still relic at this point) is so inconsistent when i comes to design choices... looking at you Valentine

Battlegroup HQ is viable.
Problem is AEC timing, when it comes slightly later than flakHT and flakHT also can be countered even easier than USF AAHT because it should be stationary for doing something.
If you play 2v2 as axis against soviet+brit combo, you want to be sure that AEC is countered and AT guns or guards will not easily take down your lights. Thats why you go Luchs, as a bullet-proof vehicle with good effective range, and puma, to counter foes light armor. Yes, you are healing your troops slowly, but thats is easily solved with medic bunker on your base provided by ostheer player.
If you replace Luchs with flakHT, nobody will build neither of those, but go strictly into puma while ostheer player will go for double 222 or flameHT, it will not solve the problem of "worse choice" with OKW t1. If you nerf puma, then RIP axis 2v2 for sure.

Viable? I guess so.

Similarly effective, reliable and anywhere close to being as prominent as Mech HQ? Hell no.

That's a faction thing not a tech thing. Mech let's okw put up an aggressive offensive, while med truck is defensive. Med let's you get your Mg, snare and stgs faster if you chose but will also help stem bleed. They fill different playstyle and mech best suits okw design.

Take sand bags of vanilla volks and add them to med truck. Double down on playstyle diversion. Could even play with double shrek sturms unlocked via med (exclusive with sweepers) to further reinforce it as an infantry focused building for when you can't nab the fuel

That's a faction thing not a tech thing. Mech let's okw put up an aggressive offensive, while med truck is defensive. Med let's you get your Mg, snare and stgs faster if you chose but will also help stem bleed. They fill different playstyle and mech best suits okw design.

Take sand bags of vanilla volks and add them to med truck. Double down on playstyle diversion. Could even play with double shrek sturms unlocked via med (exclusive with sweepers) to further reinforce it as an infantry focused building for when you can't nab the fuel

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment regarding getting STGs earlier. The bottleneck for those is munitions not tech. If you are teching at a normal speed, you'll have the munitions for at the very most 2 stg upgrades once BGHQ is built if you didnt bother with any grenades or medkits.


On a more relevant note, I was thinking perhaps locking volks STG upgrade behind BGHQ which would certainly make it picked more, but this is through nerfing mechanized rather through buffing BGHQ and I'm not sure that's a good route to go. Similarly putting Obers in BGHQ would be a simultaneous nerf to Mechanized but buff to BGHQ. I just dont feel mechanized needs a nerf, BGHQ just needs to be more attractive.

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment regarding getting STGs earlier. The bottleneck for those is munitions not tech. If you are teching at a normal speed, you'll have the munitions for at the very most 2 stg upgrades once BGHQ is built if you didnt bother with any grenades or medkits.


On a more relevant note, I was thinking perhaps locking volks STG upgrade behind BGHQ which would certainly make it picked more, but this is through nerfing mechanized rather through buffing BGHQ and I'm not sure that's a good route to go. Similarly putting Obers in BGHQ would be a simultaneous nerf to Mechanized but buff to BGHQ. I just dont feel mechanized needs a nerf, BGHQ just needs to be more attractive.

Its probably more of a personal experience, as I enjoy munitions play over fuel so i like bee lining them stgs. Take it with a grain of salt. My point however I maintain that bghq should give more to infantry as mech provides vehicles. Make bghq the bread and butter for infantry play.

Perhaps a midway to your suggestion and mine? Increase the cost of stgs by 10 or more and remove it when med is built?
It could be interesting to reintroduce the original "resource starved" okw beck through other means and allow an accommodating power increase as needed.

What if they put Obers in BGroup (which had it's fuel cost increased to 45; then put Ostwind (for Scavenge, maybe give to Elite Armor?) and P4 behind Schwer (without Authorization Upgrade; effectively giving OKW a tier 3 of sorts). Might have to increase cost for both parts of Schwer to 80 or so fuel depending on timings (with Ober weapon upgrades remaining behind Panzer Authorization). IIRC: Obers without weapon upgrades are like Penals in terms of DPS, though not RA eventually I think.

+1 to OP

Even though i arrived after the party ended