Pioneers after early game

Jump back to quoted post6 May 2020, 11:19 AMWiderstreit

German Pioneers carriered K98s when they were used as supporter, there is a reason why there are also assault pioneers ingame. What we have in game, they are Panzerpioniere, main order to repair vehicles.

a. give them K98.

b. or, give them Pistols and a real assault upgrade with flamer.

I hate current pioneers. Simply bad design. They were nerfed into ground because game got assault-grens. Then OKW got assault-pioneers having STG44 with MP40 stats. xD

ingame Lugar has nearly same DPS as current pio's MP40, but why we fu*king using MP40 for every sh*t unit? Also weapon crews shouldn't have MP40. Making a bluepring having a normal spectrum of DPS is what a game needs, for visuality.

Edit: Same sh*t why storm grens gets MP40 with ~ PPsh stats... simply give them PPsh instead. CoH's balancing is also by hearing.

Also Osttruppen would be more logical with an other weapon.

Jump back to quoted post6 May 2020, 23:48 PMdistrofio

I like this idea of giving Pios some lugers and leave Mp40 out of the "Trash tier SMG" category. It is very confusing that stormtroopers have it aswell and shred infantry but pios spread their guns and cause little to no damage at all. I am not saying that pios should have ST Mp40, i am saying makes no sense to have such a big gap between the two weapon profiles

Jump back to quoted post7 May 2020, 02:23 AMthedarkarmadillo

If the versions of the gun give you trouble consider guns are only as good as the guy using it.

Jump back to quoted post7 May 2020, 03:27 AMdistrofio

I did this from the begining and its a very good concept for newer players to learn the game.
My point was that there was too much difference in performance between Pio MP40 and ST Mp40. I remember it was mentioned when ST got their Mp40 free upgrade and weapon profile change. But i think its worth to mention again-

Jump back to quoted post7 May 2020, 15:23 PMJibberJabberJobber

The first and foremost problem with EFA Engineer units is that their veterancy requirements are (much) higher than Rear Echelons.

If they could reach vet 2 easier with their current performance, it wouldn't be important if they don't scale in combat. You want to avoid combat with them in any case, except if they have flamethrowers.

Jump back to quoted post7 May 2020, 15:34 PMEsxile

It has probably to do with RE vet0 bad accuracy.

Jump back to quoted post7 May 2020, 15:36 PMVipper

Another myth.

RE have better DPS than C.E. and there is nothing wrong with their accuracy because they have high ROF.

Jump back to quoted post7 May 2020, 15:54 PMEsxile

Why do you compare only combat engineer on a topic dedicated to pioneers.

Jump back to quoted post7 May 2020, 16:20 PMVipper

Because they both have long range rifles.

You want compare RE with pioneer on accuracy ?
ok here are the numbers:

Pioneers:
Accuracy near 0.463
Accuracy mid 0.27
Accuracy far 0.115

RE
Accuracy near 0.403
Accuracy mid 0.288
Accuracy far 0.23

Re have better accuracy from mid and above so if RE have "bad" accuracy according to you Pionners have even worse accuracy.

Are you happy now?

Jump back to quoted post7 May 2020, 15:34 PMEsxile

It has probably to do with RE vet0 bad accuracy.

Jump back to quoted post7 May 2020, 16:20 PMVipper

Because they both have long range rifles.

You want compare RE with pioneer on accuracy ?
ok here are the numbers:

Pioneers:
Accuracy near 0.463
Accuracy mid 0.27
Accuracy far 0.115

RE
Accuracy near 0.403
Accuracy mid 0.288
Accuracy far 0.23

Re have better accuracy from mid and above so if RE have "bad" accuracy according to you Pionners have even worse accuracy.

Are you happy now?

Jump back to quoted post7 May 2020, 18:18 PMdistrofio

Vipper, allow me to put this numbers in forums terms.

RE have the DOUBLE of acc at FAR distance compared to PIOS.
About the SAME at MID distance.
Rougly 12% lower at NEAR distance.

Volley fire is still an option, stopping any intent of Pios to close the game.
And both units are engineer units and trash tier combat units.

But after all, the vet of RE are still far lower than CE and PIOS.

What about that?

Jump back to quoted post7 May 2020, 18:18 PMdistrofio

Vipper, allow me to put this numbers in forums terms.

RE have the DOUBLE of acc at FAR distance compared to PIOS.
About the SAME at MID distance.
Rougly 12% lower at NEAR distance.

Volley fire is still an option, stopping any intent of Pios to close the game.
And both units are engineer units and trash tier combat units.

But after all, the vet of RE are still far lower than CE and PIOS.

What about that?

Jump back to quoted post2 May 2020, 00:37 AMMazianni

Looking through this entire bloody thread and not one person recommends lowering Pio/CE vet requirements to Rear Echelon levels (that's right, Rear Echelons have even lower veterancy requirements, and IMO all engineers should have it.)

On the other hand I also agree with people who think Pios and CEs should get a received accuracy buff of some sort, and I also think the cooldown bonus should be increased (primarily benefitting Flamethrowers and Pio MP40s; Combat Engineer rifles have their cooldown offset by a long winddown time)


As for non-doc 5-man pioniers, I think that would need to be examined closely in detail first, particularly with regard to how much repair speed is increased when combined with the sweeper, maybe having one upgrade lock out the other.