Pioneers after early game

But replacing lost mainlines is completely different from replacing engineers. If you're issue is that you lost your pioneers and the new ones you built aren't holding up in combat, I mean, that's tough. They aren't supposed to, and my received accuracy suggestion is only meant to help them a little

Biggest reason to want vetted engineers is the repair bonus at vet 2, and they already added a repair speed bonus to the sweeper



I have said this for years, they should also get XP from kills/damage they do with planted mines. It seems the modteam doesn't want this or its not possible because its never made it to a patch

I have never said that pioneers should be potent fighters. But OPs point was that OST pios cannot really get vet after the midgame, which I find to be true. Giving them higher vet bonus helps only if it can be reasonably reached.

There needs to be at least "some" fidelity regarding real history. Pioneers did not have a role that required G43s.

I disagree strongly, for various reasons, among them that G43s make excellent pew pew noises in the game and their alternatives do not.

I have never said that pioneers should be potent fighters. But OPs point was that OST pios cannot really get vet after the midgame, which I find to be true. Giving them higher vet bonus helps only if it can be reasonably reached.

If vet is a problem(it is exclusively for EFA engies), then I'd increase their vet requierments as needed and give them shared vet.

If you make them too good, people will just spam them. They are cheap and the flame weapon isn't something to take lightly.

It is sad that detonating mines doesn't grant them xp. Building tier structure could also grant them some xp. (not bunkers)

And you still wouldn't. Flamethrower Engineers aren't dominating games now, and allowing them to upgrade to retain some relevance in the late game isn't going to change that. Its just a way to make them slightly more useful when forced into combat, which is the entire point of this thread.

They are not supposed to be useful when forced into combat, you can tell that by looking at their price and their stats. That's the point I'm making.

Thats funny given that the Minesweeper upgrade is clearly the no brainer option right now. So tell me, should we split the repair speed buff into its own upgrade to force choices?

Its very much not a no brainer. You are trading 25% your firepower to repair faster. If it was an absolute no brainer you wouldn't be trying to make both available. You are either getting the upgrade that makes them better on the front or the one that makes them better off the front. Decisions need to be made and that's a good thing.

I have never said that pioneers should be potent fighters. But OPs point was that OST pios cannot really get vet after the midgame, which I find to be true. Giving them higher vet bonus helps only if it can be reasonably reached.

Okay well you compared them to replacing lost cons, which you replace in order to fight.

Late game replacement engineers are for clearing mines, repairing tanks, and maybe placing more mines if its a long match. None of those things benefit from veterancy anyway, except repair speed which you now get a bonus for if you buy the sweeper

I say RA bonus since they currently get none at all, and I agree they should get XP from doing engineer tasks

Pio's after early game get sweeper and repair tanks lol.

I really like how you can hide them outside of fog and have them pew pew with their MP40s in close range. If you want them to be a combat unit, you get flamer.

im against a stock 5 man pio, srsly.

They are not as bad as pictured, they are simply not meant to survive late game. And thats all. 5 man doc pio is a solution if you really want them to survive 1/5th more but in the end OST iconic design is around 4 man squads.

Lets take things exactly the opposite way, if pio become 5 man stock, every single balance thread involving them will have to "balance" their 5th man aswell, making their current skills weaker and maybe reducing its utility.

The last change they got was a repair bonus upgrade, dont forget that

Just to clarify, my main issue with pios and combat engineers (they are in a slightly better position as they have rifles, but still not optimal) is that in mid and late game they don't have much opportunities to gain veterancy. Thus you end up building more of them, occupying more popcap, as you can't benefit from the increased repair speed from vet 2.

I don't want to make them viable in combat, just make them slightly better in late game only (early game they are fine as they are) so that they can vet up, yet not so much better so spamming them still won't worth it.

5 men pios would be still pretty bad in late game combat, especially if we consider that with sweeper upgrade they go back to being 4 men combat wise, but they can survive for a bit longer before they need to retreat. It would also solve ostheer's issue of recrewing team weapons in general. Keep in mind that with the 5th men upgrade pios would get 1 more popcap and bleed more too.

The other most discussed solution would be giving them shared veterancy with increased vet requirements and probably it fits them better. Pios are a spotter unit too and should be rewarded for spotting for team weapons.

they slowly gain exp even can't hit sh*t.
just let them spray their smg until they get vet 2

Sure is a good thing EFA engines can buy a better repair rate no innit?

OKW Stormpioneer combat package for Ost pioneer and lock out flamethrower and sweeper will be fine，also StormPioneer combat package not lock out sweeper

OKW Stormpioneer combat package for Ost pioneer and lock out flamethrower and sweeper will be fine，also StormPioneer combat package not lock out sweeper

Ah yes the "use your cheap pios that can scout to ensure maximum map control and then turn them into panzergrens using the resources you gained from swarming the map" I forsee no issues with this unneeded change

Wouldn't it be better to get engineers some XP from the HP they 'healed' to vehicles? Tie the 'used ability' threat in the script to a 10-20 xp gain trigger (a kill is 40 iirc).

Some games I get this "120 abilities used MVU" on my engineers while still being vet 0 or 1.

Eh, I think they're OK. Combat Engineers are in a similar position, they're not meant to be frontline combat troops unless you give them a flamer, in which case they have no issue getting vet. Giving them a minesweeper is essentially relegating them to a support unit status only for repairs and building bunkers, mines, etc. as well as scouting for mines before an advance. That's the role they should play with that upgrade.

Pioneer dont need any buff

I like the ideas with sweeping exp and planted mines xp after the mine deals dmg. The rest would be just too much imo. I'd rather make sure that other engineer squads don't get too potent and nerf them instead of buffing Sov or ost engies. But that is another story I guess.

There is no need to improve pioneers. Most units have less combat validity once a given time is passed within a game. Pioneers are included.

Let engineers either get shared vet.

Or gain vet from building mines, teching and repairing.

They should benefit from doing engineer 'stuff' for 45 minutes straight.

Eh, I think they're OK. Combat Engineers are in a similar position, they're not meant to be frontline combat troops unless you give them a flamer, in which case they have no issue getting vet. Giving them a minesweeper is essentially relegating them to a support unit status only for repairs and building bunkers, mines, etc. as well as scouting for mines before an advance. That's the role they should play with that upgrade.

actually no , CE have been buffed with patches, they have the same weapon as cons but 2 less man, would u immagine if the same was done with pio and the ass green mp40 instead of the water guns they have now ?