An idea to buff G43 rifles for grens

Note that this thread is ONLY about the G43 of Grenadiers and Jaeger Command Squad, NOT about Pgren, Stormtrooper or Fusilier G43.


Out of all the G43 rifles that we have in this game, I think the one of grens sticks out as the only true lackluster and underwhelming one. Grens are too fragile for being able to really charge in, and not to mention that many allied squads are strong CQC units, so that doesnt favor this upgrade too. But what makes this upgrade even more niche is Panzergrenadiers. Since Pgrens are in t0, they arrive only a tiny bit later than grens, and both the stg44 and the G43 version of Pgrens makes everything enormously better than G43 grens at any range and any situation. To me personally it makes absolutely no sense to get G43 over LMG42 on grens at the current state.

The combination of grens being fragile and their G43 performing horribly vs any sort of cover leaves little to no room to use this upgrade effectively, so what I would do is

Grenadier G43 accuracy against cover from 0.5 to 0.7

0.7 is just a value that I would start with testing... it might go down or up.

Turning the Gren G43 into a weaker version of the Ober Stg44 is exactly what would make this upgrade stick out as an attractive choice in certain situations imo. It would give Ostheer an easier time to deal with urban maps or massive sandbag play as they dont have an incendiary grenade like OKW.

It should not be problematic as
- it should still perform way worse on long range than the lmg42, even in a cover fight
- it should still be noticeably worse than Panzergrenadier performance
- it does not really increase the chance to get wipes on retreat more easily
- it has no impact on point blank range.. the only range where the current gren G43 is nasty
- it gives more intent to engage in cover fights
- it has no impact outside of cover and doesnt increase standard dps or gren survivability, hence reckless plays or blobbing should not benefit much from this change

...

0.7 is just a value that I would start with testing... it might go down or up.

Turning the Gren G43 into a weaker version of the Ober Stg44 is exactly what would make this upgrade stick out as an attractive choice in certain situations imo...

Creating weapon with "special" modifier imo is bad solution, since it makes the game more complicated for no good reason.

Simply replace the upgrade with 5 weapon and extra entity (with a normal semi profile).

The change will make the squad easier to balance, make DPs drop linear, while providing something unique to the faction.

Creating weapon with "special" modifier imo is bad solution, since it makes the game more complicated for no good reason.

Simply replace the upgrade with 5 weapon and extra entity (with a normal semi profile).

The change will make the squad easier to balance, make DPs drop linear, while providing something unique to the faction.

you basically mean it should turn it into a 5men squad with 5x G43 but with a poop version of the G43?

Personally I would go a different route. I would give Grenadiers a separate package upgrade from the LMG42, a Jaeger infantry upgrade for 75munitions. This would give the squad access to interrogation, booby traps, flame grenades and free medkits.

I honestly think all G43s need a nerf. Their moving DPS is just cancerous in teamgames.

you basically mean it should turn it into a 5men squad with 5x G43 but with a poop version of the G43?

Yep something like that.

Maybe something like grenadiers be a bit better than riflemen for a cost of something like 20-30 munition.

They would cost around the same manpower and some MP.

I honestly think all G43s need a nerf. Their moving DPS is just cancerous in teamgames.

Now compare the moving accuracy of G43 grenadier squad or PF squad with that of penal battalion or a Para squad and you might find out that they are not that different.

The only real issue is the G43 on Pg and ST and I do not really understand why so much effort has been made to implement the g43 upgrade to PG or ST.

Now compare the moving accuracy of G43 grenadier squad or PF squad with that of penal battalion or a Para squad and you might find out that they are not that different.

The only real issue is the G43 on Pg and ST and I do not really understand why so much effort has been made to implement the g43 upgrade to PG or ST.

?

Gren/PF G43
Moving
Accuracy multi
0.8
Burst duration multi
1
Cooldown duration multi (lower is better)
0.5

Penal/Guards/Conscript SVT
Moving
Accuracy multi
0.5
Burst duration multi
1
Cooldown duration multi (+0.25s wind down)
0.75

Riflemen M1 Garand
Moving
Accuracy multi
0.6
Burst duration multi
1
Cooldown duration multi
1.25

Ranger/Para M1 Carbine
Moving
Accuracy multi
0.5
Burst duration multi
1
Cooldown duration multi (+0.2s wind down)
0.25

Guards Mosin Nagant (closest, but not a semi-auto; wind down makes the cooldown decrease less useful)
Moving
Accuracy multi
0.75
Burst duration multi
1
Cooldown duration multi (+1.625s wind down)
0.5

Grenadiers should remain long range, as any attempt to make them a cqb squad will simply become a worse Panzergrenadier squad.

They are SCOPED g43s, so I would propose making them a long range weapon (maybe a flat DPS profile?) and it can fire at .4 accuracy on the move

Now it retains the Gren’s identity, doesn’t conflict with Pgrens, doesn’t have high moving accuracy so harder to blob.

Giving them a Scoped G43 that acts kind of like JLI would be an interesting idea, obviously would need testing but 1 Scoped G43 for like 60 muni. Maybe delay it until 3 CP instead of 2 or something. Otherwise I wish you could get the 5-man upgrade without having to go German Infantry, having it locked behind BP3 or Tier 4 would delay it enough so it comes around the same time as 7-man Conscripts.

I don't see what would be so bad about the OP's suggestion. I do agree the G43 Grens need some sort of buff and this could help them.

Giving them a crit-rifle like the one from Jäger Light is a horrible idea. No mainline infantry should have that.

Creating weapon with "special" modifier imo is bad solution, since it makes the game more complicated for no good reason.

Simply replace the upgrade with 5 weapon and extra entity (with a normal semi profile).

The change will make the squad easier to balance, make DPs drop linear, while providing something unique to the faction.

Yet Special modifiers are what made coh1's balance (atleast wehr vs ami) work.

Yet Special modifiers are what made coh1's balance (atleast wehr vs ami) work.

As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly what made the game utterly impossible to balance and its in that state up to this day.

Hell no on making G43 Grens into the JLI mold.

Now compare the moving accuracy of G43 grenadier squad or PF squad with that of penal battalion or a Para squad and you might find out that they are not that different.

The only real issue is the G43 on Pg and ST and I do not really understand why so much effort has been made to implement the g43 upgrade to PG or ST.

Buddy the G43's are way superior on the move m8. Here are the curves to show you.
https://imgur.com/a/PKUCJko

As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly what made the game utterly impossible to balance and its in that state up to this day.

What the hell are you talking about. COH1's base faction balance is better than COH2's. The cross faction balance on COH1 is kinda well... Non existential.

It seems to me that they are fine as they are. I see often g43 blobs sprinting with storm doctrine.
G43 grens are not even that easy to push away cause of mid range g43 damage when they focus charging units. The upgrade anyway is cheap, and with new vet damage reduction they are working better on close combat if i'm not wrong.
It is a very easy upgrade to make it OP even by slightly modifying the stats.

What the hell are you talking about. COH1's base faction balance is better than COH2's. The cross faction balance on COH1 is kinda well... Non existential.

If you want to go that way, sure, if you ignore existence of OKW, usf and ukf, CoH2 is perfectly balanced too.

So 0.8 moving accuracy and a 0.7 modifier against cover on a 240mp squad that has a snare, self heal and a long range grenade? I see no way that won't be complete cancer and blob incentive...

So 0.8 moving accuracy and a 0.7 modifier against cover on a 240mp squad that has a snare, self heal and a long range grenade? I see no way that won't be complete cancer and blob incentive...

Understandable concern. Thats why it would need to be tested first.

The thing is, the way you described the G43 upgrade above makes it seem fantastic even without a better cover modifier. But I have tested G43 gren spam with HMG42 so many times now in 3v3 and (with a smurf account) in 2v2, both top 50 and I came to the conclusion that it either doesnt work or is significantly worse than lmg42... unless the enemies were potato.

And Im not sure about 1v1 but from what I hear from many 1v1 streamers/players, they dont like the G43 upgrade on grens either.