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State of Heavies

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LoopDloop
11 Jan 2020, 19:00 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2020, 21:17 PMblvckdream
The balance team wanted to make them more reliable but less able to randomly wipe. They didn't achieve this at all, now they wipe even more while still being very RNG depended. It's still very hit or miss especially with the KT.

Locking them behind T4 was the right choice. But the CP requirements need to go up 2 CP. Right now they arrive too early.

The IS2 has too much armour, it needs to go down to around 330 IMO. Right now it's too hard to penetrate even for Tigers, Panthers and Kingtigers. JP4 is basically useless against it unless you have good RNG.

I think the heavy tank AOE profiles need to be slightly reduced for all heavies apart from the KT, which is still not that great overall IMO.

OKW meta is so boring now because Grand Offensive is the only viable doctrine in 1v1 and 2v2. Then again all their other doctrines are mediocre so it's not just a Grand Offensive problem. And even Grand Offensive is just good because of the Tiger.

+1

Luftwaffe is good as okw too though. 2cp elite infantry that are good at all ranges with camo plz. And whatever commander you go you can still get KT so that's not really a factor.
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thedarkarmadillo
11 Jan 2020, 20:51 PM
#22
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Posts: 5279

Yea as far as the is-2 goes... Now that it's finally reliable cannon I think it's other traits are over performing. The armour and range combined with the reliable gun makes it a bit much.

Lowering its armour slightly (350? 325?) and changing its vet around so it actually has to USE its armour would be nice. In exchange maybe making its cannon more unique--modifiers vs structures and vehicles as it vets so it stands out a bit without being too op against infantry perhaps?
#stalinwept
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Stug life
12 Jan 2020, 00:09 AM
#23
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Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2020, 18:30 PMSkysTheLimit


Oh yeah cause those 2 tanks are clearly struggling so much right now...

sky can u read please, i said that is 2 would only have a 5 rnage difference from stug at vet 0 with the changes as as all the other have said to me, 5 range is not enough to out range

while tiger would still be 15 range difference from su 85 or su 76

leaving again ost in the dust

just remove 5 range from vet bonus

or even better chance is 2 vet and nerf base armor

armor to 320-330
vet range bonus removed , added 10% more armor with vet (like panther)
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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SkysTheLimit
12 Jan 2020, 05:52 AM
#24
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 00:09 AMStug life
sky can u read please, i said that is 2 would only have a 5 rnage difference from stug at vet 0 with the changes as as all the other have said to me, 5 range is not enough to out range


The stug isn't even supposed to counter heavy tanks? Idk why you think it should

If you want to increase it's range it should probably lose damage, just like su76
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Stug life
12 Jan 2020, 11:57 AM
#25
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Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 05:52 AMSkysTheLimit


The stug isn't even supposed to counter heavy tanks? Idk why you think it should

If you want to increase it's range it should probably lose damage, just like su76
I already did propose it but balance

Well same would be for panther as it has 50 range Vs the is 2 50 range at vet 2

Stug could use some changes tho maybe vet 1 ?
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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Fire and Terror
12 Jan 2020, 12:31 PM
#26
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Posts: 306

vet 1 from the stug could certainly do full dmg, it sucks now , i would be carefull with range buffs
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Widerstreit
12 Jan 2020, 13:54 PM
#27
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Posts: 1392

StuG could lose the Vet1 ability, but gets a stationary range buff as ability to get 62,5 range (as hull-down) so it can't be trolled. Can only rotate. Like in CoH1 MarderIII.

Edit: then change hull-down effect, so it only gets armor-buff and no range-buff. Maybe could bring back a reload advantage for StuG then.
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Alphrum
12 Jan 2020, 13:56 PM
#28
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Posts: 808

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 11:57 AMStug life
I already did propose it but balance

Well same would be for panther as it has 50 range Vs the is 2 50 range at vet 2

Stug could use some changes tho maybe vet 1 ?


maybe stug can have an upgrade option that costs either munitions or MP and Fuel, that buffs its main gun Pen and range while nerfing its ROF
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Crecer13
12 Jan 2020, 14:01 PM
#29
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Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

Current state of Heavy Tanks better than before the change. Before the changes, Heavy tanks were unnecessary - they arrived late, right at the end of the game, their characteristics were not worth their price. And even if you have resources for a heavy tank, then it is simply unnecessary for you because Heavy tanks come late and the limit of units is already full.
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SkysTheLimit
12 Jan 2020, 16:23 PM
#30
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Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 11:57 AMStug life

Stug could use some changes tho maybe vet 1 ?


For sure could use some changes. I think made a thread about giving it a health buff with vet, there were some other good ideas in there too

I think Vipper came up with a Target size reduction idea that I liked. I think making it slightly less easy to kill is preferable to increasing it's killing power if that makes sense
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aaa
12 Jan 2020, 18:08 PM
#31
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Posts: 1487

heavies are in and obnoxious state. They all should be nerfed to pre-patch level or to level of kv2 = better than mediums but not many times better.












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Esxile
12 Jan 2020, 18:13 PM
#32
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At the moment they give too much for their cost. You can have a heavy with a decent army size around while your opponent need to cut 30+ popcap only to counter them.

Not all heavy are problematic thought, only the generalists that are too good vs anything. Pershing IS2 and tigers (all variants) should have weaknesses and if people don't want to see their stats nerfed, then nerf their popcap, reduce the size of the supportive army around them.
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thedarkarmadillo
12 Jan 2020, 18:23 PM
#33
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Posts: 5279

I really don't want to see pop cap nerfs. Imo they are already too high and it puts a lot of weight on them HAVING to be obnoxious. I think I'd rather them start weaker and scale more dramatically. This would also help fix the awful team game float where taking loses knocking out a heavy tank that's just replaced instantly and it being a terror if you lost anything knocking it out.
#stalinwept
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Esxile
12 Jan 2020, 18:35 PM
#34
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Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Then they'll be too expansive for their price and people will stop using them. People will also complain that their vet is unreachable etc...

Imo Heavy should have never been more that a better version of premium medium tank as the pershing is.
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Mazianni
12 Jan 2020, 18:43 PM
#35
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Posts: 785

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 18:35 PMEsxile
Then they'll be too expansive for their price and people will stop using them. People will also complain that their vet is unreachable etc...

Imo Heavy should have never been more that a better version of premium medium tank as the pershing is.


Could be interesting to make the Tiger into a Super Panther with 60 range and some better AOE besides the obvious hp and armor advantage. But then the Elefant would be even less desirable.

That or round switches for all these units a la the M4A3.
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thedarkarmadillo
12 Jan 2020, 18:44 PM
#36
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Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 18:35 PMEsxile
Then they'll be too expansive for their price and people will stop using them. People will also complain that their vet is unreachable etc...

Imo Heavy should have never been more that a better version of premium medium tank as the pershing is.

Well I mean, if we are overhauling them and reworking their vet we could (bear with me on this) rework their vet REQUIREMENTS too! If more power is gated behind vet their true potential would come from scaling and preserving them so they could be cheaper and hit a bit sooner. If we're talking about a rework any aspect can be reworked. Trying to fit performance to a fixed price point is where many balance issues reside.
#stalinwept
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aaa
12 Jan 2020, 18:45 PM
#37
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Posts: 1487

they should not
1. be no skill win button as now

2. nulify noob play early mid game. As now when it arrives it just sits in the center behind building for the rest of the game. with no way to get it out of there

they were fine pre patch btw
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aerafield
12 Jan 2020, 19:00 PM
#38
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I just wish their anti infantry capability would return to pre-patch levels :s

Or what about turning them into tank destroyers by nerfing their anti inf hard but buffing armor and/or penetration


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Katitof
12 Jan 2020, 19:04 PM
#39
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 19:00 PMaerafield
I just wish their anti infantry capability would return to pre-patch levels :s

Or what about turning them into tank destroyers by nerfing their anti inf hard but buffing armor and/or penetration




Allies already have TDs that can tackle everything except super heavy TDs, axis already have super heavy TDs and panthers exist.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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aerafield
12 Jan 2020, 19:11 PM
#40
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 19:04 PMKatitof


Allies already have TDs that can tackle everything except super heavy TDs, axis already have super heavy TDs and panthers exist.


yeah I guess they would be somewhere between panther and elefant/ISU level
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