Thread: Ostheer8 Dec 2015, 05:08 AM
and about hordes. I had 4 cons, 1 engie, sniper, shocks. 6 infantry squads produced entire game.
Cons < grens upgraded with any weapon. OH Have advantage in sniper vs sniper.
i'd like to have whatever you're smoking. on 2nd thought, probably not... seems to have hollowed out your skull :-/
no idea how anyone could say ost sniper wins vs. soviet sniper. even completely disregarding the fact the ost sniper is almost entirely useless against anything the soviets can field apart from maybe the engineers. |
Some units being bad or having niche roles doesn't justify other units being bad or having too narrow a niche. The 222 does have a role as a soft AT target that can still hurt (and chase) infantry and is cheap as chips too boot, I build it in most of my games and I'd say it survives to get 6+ kills most of the time, and I,ve seen several vetted ones recently. The 221 could use a bit more speed or something but is a casualty of transports in this game just not being overly useful.
I've almost never seen an AEC amount to anything major, personally. At best they chase the Luchs off to another part of the map then run around doing nothing until forced off themselves by shrecks and P4s, because it has bad dmg against infantry and melts when facing mediums. I expect a bit more for a unit that requires its own specific tech and locks out the BOFORS.
Of course, I would have less issues with the AEC being mediocre if Brits had a reliable AT snare to keep the Luchs from happily running around. Say, on Sappers, if we need to avoid copying other factions. Or if the PIAT was actually worth something.
222 can kill nothing but UCs or halftracks vehicle wise, and is pretty bad vs. infantry as well (especially because everything more than a single squad will straight up kill it if you dont pull back. the only upside the 222 has over getting another gren/pgren is that it's not bleeding you MP as long as its alive (and it won't be for long, because it has no "window" unlike the AEC). 251 is bad because its a mobile reinforcement bunker without the flame upgrade, and a 120 muni sink with it, as it will go down to small arms as well (also no window). the russian clown cars are better because you don't have to upgrade the halftrack, but just put a flamer inside that you can save even if the vehicle dies. also quad.
problem with infantry snares for UKF is that you can have stuff like double piat on a squad that also has a snare. suddenly a single squad can solo even medium tanks just by snaring and then finishing off (piats are actually pretty devastating when they hit... stationary targets and snared tanks get eaten for lunch). imagine PGrens with snare, or Grens with double schreck. and yes, i see the same problem with USF, luckily so far i haven't seen anyone try to do it with zooks (which are admittedly a bit worse). you can btw. also attack ground with piats if the target is moving (also, brummbär is even more worthless than any piat squad could be, even with attack ground). |
I cannot think of a single instance in which building an AEC is actually useful. It's a fart in the wind and completely unreliable; much like the Universal Carrier.
both units have a purpose and do well at what they're supposed to do. especially the AEC has a decent window where there are no "hard counters" possible (AEC can easily run away from anything that could seriously threaten it when it hits the field).
as i've mentioned before, if the AEC/UC are "bad", what is the 222 or the 251 (ost halftrack)? |
Balancing 1vs1 doesn't take into account inter-faction balance with regards to unit combinations, overall team unit availability and differences in teching structure (like Ostheer superior Team Crew Weapons + Oberkommando 4 Minute Luchs rushes/Volk Infantry amassing at cheap cost)
This, needs to be examined as well.
but it does take into account what each individual player (roughly) can potentially field at a certain time in the game. if the other faction can counter it in a 1v1, it can also be countered in a 4v4. what is harder to predict is stuff like "yeah, defending against a X minute Y is certainly possible" - "but how about 4 Xs at Y in a 4v4?", which is why 4v4s are inherently harder to balance. Trying to balance anything (but the maps) around the fact that there could potentially be 4 shock units hitting the field at the earliest possible time is ludicrous, because every other game mode would suffer horrendously from it. |
so how is this all related to UKF in particular? ofc, if one faction is weak, its team game win ratio will be even lower... not because it is "worse" in those modes, but because it is more likely that two players of the same faction will lose the same game, thus adding two loses to the stats (also, if the faction in particular is "weaker", the chances of winning drop as well the more players are playing the particular faction in the same game).
thats why argueing with team game win ratios is flawed in the first place (or should at least taken with a grain of salt). balancing 1v1 will automatically make team games more balanced as well. now, please, back to topic. |
that's kind of the point though, the sniper and AT gun are not too late and it's not that hard to save my fuel for cromwells. all of them will preform nearly as well (or better for more) against the lusch and will be more useful later on.
i don't think the AEC is a bad unit in an of it self, i've seen people use it well, but its window of opportunity is a couple of minutes and then it's done. i can get more utility out of other units and save my fuel for better ones.
i find light vehicles in general to be one of the weaker points in this game because they either have a limited window of opportunity, perform a utility role, and/or have shock value. there aren't many light AT weapons and none of them are stock so light vehicles, by definition of being light, are also very vulnerable to all forms of damage.
...and almost every faction has the same problem. the 222 wants to say hello and is asking for his window/role :-)
no reason (or even less of a reason) to buff the AEC. |
Lol just showed you have no clue about 4v4s Dusty
i haven't seen a single "informed" comment from you either. what does that say about you? :-)
also for all "team games are most played" etc. comments:
and still: team games, especially when you have 5 factions and a plethora of commanders to choose from are inherently hard to balance. i also play mostly 2v2+, but still: if the game is unbalanced in 1v1, it almost certainly is in team modes. you always try to balance 1v1 first, and when you have achieved reasonable balance there, you go on fixing whatever is making team games unenjoyable. trying it the other way around is almost impossible, since after you change 1v1, team games will get messed up again, since every change is amplified in team games. |
eh, i don't want to buy something as late and expensive as the AEC just to fight light vehicles. also, the puma fights mediums just fine because it out ranges them. same with the su-76. both are more expensive than the AEC but the AEC is in an awkward spot right now, just like the M-42; the m-42 is only useful against the lusch and lighter which makes it utterly useless 99% of the time (although probably more useful this patch with lusch rushing making a resurgence).
or you know, you build 6 pounders and/or the AT sniper and save your fuel for cromwells... if that stuff is too late, maybe you need to build an AEC after all... just like all other factions, you have to make a choice whether you want to have a safe early game and delay your strong units or risk getting overrun by light vehicles. |
oh then i am surprised you didn't mention the days after Brit release...hahaha
you mean the time were brits had like 75+% win rate? i can recall those times :-) |
axis suffering since UKF release is now big deal.... when playing Allied faction for 1+ years had the game stacked against you.....
was around for WFA, so can't talk about that. still funny how 3 days of percieved imbalance make people go crazy. also: do you want a balanced game? if so: don't just speak up when your favorite faction is UP, do so when it is OP as well. like i mentioned like 20 times already. it just makes all your concerns appear more valid. |