Whole post about how strong the JT is, suggests increasing the cooldown time so that allies benefit more if it gets killed quickly...
This response makes no sense to me, if a unit is too strong a nerf is in order. Changes I have suggested reward the player who manages to kill the unit and punishes the player who loses one recklessly.
This time Katitof is wrong.
JT should hardcounter it.
From Wikipedia:
"On 17 January 1945, two Jagdtigers used by XIV Corps engaged a bunker line in support of infantry near Auenheim. On 18 January, they attacked four secure bunkers at 1,000 meters. The armored cupola of one bunker burned out after two shots. A Sherman attacking in a counter-thrust was set afire by explosive shells. The total combat included 46 explosive shells and 10 anti-tank shells, with no losses to the Jagdtigers."
This comes up almost every time we talk about units, and I will say it again: Realism is not game play. If you want to play a realistic version of WWII look elsewhere. History inspires game play, it does not dictate it.
I'm confused by point 1. It would only be a concern for Axis players who lose their JT shortly after calling it in ... but in how many cases would they even have the resources to summon another one immediately afterwards? I think it would take at least 5-10 minutes to build your fuel stores up to 290 anyway, so what would this change achieve?
This is a fair point. My initial suggestion is probably low, possibly forcing a 10 minute cool-down would stress the uniqueness and importance of the unit. I am trying to make the unit harder to use, not prevent good play when in the right hands.
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The JT is a powerful TD with unmatched range and damage. It functions as a Pak43 on wheels and is extremely potent. However, in most small games sacrificing ~25% of your army to a single TD unit is risky. It can be done but has obvious counterplay as well. In larger team games this weakness is not reflected because it can be surrounded by potent AT and AI. As a result, the late-late game can lead to a feeling of inevitability for Allied players as they are slowly pushed back and lose.
The Allied counters for this unit are very limited. All Allied TD's must close the gap with the unit, and only the Firefly with tulips, can even hope to scare the unit from the front. Light vehicles can be destroyed by a single shell from the JT and so become extremely difficult to use after its arrival. The 17-pdr is outranged by the JT, and artillery is of limited concern because larger team modes will almost guarantee stuka dive bombs, or other off maps to nullify them. Reliance on AT guns is of limited use since in team games indirect fire is so plentiful in the late game they represent an MP sink, and not a reasonable threat.
Trading with the JT is extremely hard to do, its cost (800 MP, 290 Fuel) means that the lost of even 2 medium tanks in bringing it down puts the OKW player even or sometimes ahead of the loss. If the TD manages to kill any more and the deficit grows noticeably. The JT also comes in a doc with snares on front line infantry, making frontal assaults extremely risky. Smoke and flank is only somewhat useful, since in many cases the JT can sit in areas with extremely few approaches, and even use penetrating shells to ignore direct fire weapons entirely.
However, I think nerfs have to be creative to help retain the JT's potency in smaller team games. Here are some I propose, but I would like to hear other ideas that would balance it better for 3v3 and 4v4:
1) JT call-in cool down increased drastically (potentially up to 5-7 minutes or more)
2) JT range normalized to 17-pdr so it cannot outright counter a static unit
Point 1 forces players who lose the JT to build other forms of AT and so limit another JT appearance.
Point 2 provides the 17-pdr some actual use in team games where it currently is near useless whenever a JT is selected by the opposing team. |
Nope. Currently they function only when attached to an army. Any buffs and they would function independently of supporting forces. |
You posted in Ostheer so I am going to try to answer in that direction, but keep in mind things are a little different depending upon what you face and your own faction composition.
For Germans, securing a fuel and capturing a VP is key. Against non-Brit forces you should focus on securely holding an area of the map and then grow out from there. Against Brit forces aggression is key. Trying to hold a small sector of the map will never work against a well-supported mortar pit.
I almost always get an MG, and then I decide either on a mortar or grens. Grens if you can keep the fight mobile, but mortar if you are likely to fight it out in a city. Against Americans throw in a sniper early to start the bleed. Feel free to do so as well against Brits but be careful about counter sniping after the 4 minute mark.
As the game progresses get some snares. Often you have OKW so you needn't worry heavily yet about AT. One snare is enough to intimidate any light vehicle when a shrek is near-by. Against good players a pak is excellent to help protect your MG's. Feel free to use bunkers around corners to free up your own MGs and help you push. This is also the time to start to get caches down. I am partial to munitions caches as you should be losing tanks very rarely, but in the late game getting to click that Stuka dive bomb 10-30 seconds sooner can be really important. Use squads at other VPs to force him to send squads to guard them. You needn't win yet, but spreading him out is great. Try to get him to commit more MP to one sector than you, this helps you fight more effectively elsewhere.
As the late game approaches you should secure enough fuel to make sure your team has access to a super heavy TD (elephant for JT). These units will form the hinge around which you will fight. Make sure you have enough AT BEHIND the super heavy so that it cannot be flanked. Rolling one forward is often enough bait to get almost any Allied team to commit to try to kill it. At this point you are in an attrition based fight. You need to trade up, if only slowly. As you do so expand and capture a second VP. Use bunkers now to discourage lone squads from capping behind you and letting all of your troops fight. Off-maps are critically important at this point. Try to use off-maps when your opponents cannot know where they are going to land. Snipers on hold fire work well here. Do not dive with Panthers unless you can completely clear out areas. But feel free to organize with teammates to position all of your tanks in one area, flank quickly and then retreat to your lines. This kind of tank push is deadly for lighter Allied tanks which rely upon outnumbering German tanks and movement.
On MGs: MGs are central to the German infantry, feel free to get 2 or 3 at a time, and always when possible have them set up staggered behind one another to create enveloping lines of fire. Every time you push off an enemy force reposition the MG immediately. This will force them to have to send units forward to find them and make indirect fire less effective. As you get good you will be able to almost guess at when the first mortar shell will land as you move out your MG. MGs are a headache for Allied players and help OKW players fight extremely effectively against Allied units. |
Are you talking about 1v1 or 2v2, or larger game modes? |
Tigers are extremely potent, but need to be used wisely. They excel at leading attacks and obliterating infantry. They can also devastate AT gun crews, especially using attack ground.
If you are looking for an elephant it is because you are in a standoff fight. If you are engaged in aggressive mobile action Tigers are amazing.
In larger games I find myself leaning towards Elephants because Brit play tends to focus on emplacements with Firefly support. The dangers of sending an expensive tank out to get Mark Targeted and then Tulip rocketed are higher in team games.
Try using it to support a diversified army and you will be surprised at its power. |
Which is better vanilla grens or Shrek'd PGs? This is a very similar question to the one you asked. Units have different roles. |
How should relic balance 4v4/full retard mode, when like it says, only retards playing there? - No point in it. It's for troll, having fun, etc, competetive game is in 1v1. So why balance a fun mode?
As no mode is inherently "better" than another and in your fairly disrespectful post you have insulted literally 25% of the COH2 population, I think fully responding to you is unnecessary.
Having said that, balance at all levels is important for the game's life, player retention, and general interest. |
The Centaur has some of the best modifiers for direct fire units against units in heavy cover...It simply is a better unit than Ostwind
The centaur is certainly not "better".
It is a slower unit so when it arrives it needs to hit hard because it cannot chase down or preposition quickly. It is also in a faction where fuel is required for upgrades prior to its deployment. It also seriously delays tech to any TD. This doesn't mean the centaur is bad, it means they are balanced asymmetrically.
I will say that the Centaur is a more consistent unit and I LOVE its vet 1 ability. |
So will existing bulletins remain and merely the duplicates be traded in?
There are bulletins for the other factions I'd like a Brit equivalent of, Vickers suppression in particular.
I was not in alpha, but I suspect they will "buy back" the dupes and give you credit or unlock up to x amount based upon some measure of progression. |