No offense, but all I read is "nerf OKW".
Although I guess you are writing from a 4v4 point of view. I don´t have that much experience in this mode.
I played a lot of 1v1 in the balance patch preview mod and OKW feels pretty in line with the other factions.
Beside that, do you think a triple nerf for the JT and the Command Panther while keeping their cost the same is balancing? I think thats way over the top. With the nerf to the rear armour a JT should be ok to deal with.
On top of this I totally agree with the post of scratchedpaintjob.
Then you read this incorrectly. I have attempted to include a few changes that would help bring all factions in line. The JT and the CmdPanther have too large an impact on team games.
The range nerfs to the JT just bring it in line with current units. These stats still reflect pre-Brit deployment of the unit. With the addition of snares on basic infantry units, and as Mr. Smith point out, suppression, I don't see how flanking a JT is even remotely possible in large team games. Right now if I see volks I can try to blow by them to flank, but as soon as the fausts are there I will lose all my tanks just on the approach. Fusilliers give LoS to prevent sneak attacks, and the MG will deal with guards or zook blobs.
The CmdPanther is cost effective at vet 0 right now. It comes with MT, gives LoS to itself and others, and requires no tech. It also buffs Allied units. What I want is to prevent a vet 3 CmdPanther from winning the game. What Allied team can deal with a Tiger Ace or a JT getting buffs from a vet 3 CmdPanther? Fixing the vet issue would be enough. |
JagdTiger
(Balance)
The JT has an unfair effect on team games where it becomes a near impossibility to trade with efficiently. It also nullifies non-turreted assault guns too effectively. AGs aren't the counter to a JT. Medium spam and flanking are the preferred strats
-Range reduced to 80 (to normalize with 17pdr) Different things, it's range is ok
-Call-in changed to one time (to encourage good use of TD) Same thing can be said about Firefly/Jackson
-Engine upgrade removed (to encourage good placement and limit ability to influence multiple areas of the battlefield, also allow a good flanking attack to succeed) Then it shouldn't cost any more 240 fuel
CmdPanther
(Balance)
The CmdPanther is too strong at higher levels of vet. It is still a very attractive tank at vet 0.
-Vet bonuses removed from 3, 4, and 5 How about no? A vetless panther lol
-Standard Panther bonuses applied to vet 3, 4 and 5 Overlapping
-MT brought in line with Soviet equivalent (35% increased damage) Different designs. It's OK the way it is.
-Guns now survive with 5% health when crew is killed. That is an awful idea.
On the JT, how do you recommend flanking a tank now that OKW has access to snares and a more powerful rakenten? The idea before was that OKW would have few to no snares, with snares you are going to have no chance to get behind the JT.
On the 17pdr, different ranges are not ok. The JT completely prevents 17pdr use, done 100%. It can even fire through walls to make sure to not even have to expose itself to take out the 17pdr. The 17pdr should be able, assuming it is pointed in the right direction, be able to engage any armored target. It cannot move.
On my call-in comment I have no idea what you are saying. Firefly and Jackson should be one time call-ins? What do you mean?
The fuel cost I am willing to look at but I would first like to see how it performs with these nerfs. It would encourage more use of the JT's abilities to be sure.
On the CmdPanther, you noticed I still give the CmdPanther its vet 0 bonuses, and its vet 2 bonuses for other units, but stop there. From then on it gains vet like a normal panther. This prevents it from buffing units to absurd levels. Especially in team games where it can make KTs near impervious.
On the MT it is not ok. It happens without any warning to the other player, and at such a range that the other player may not even know that the CmdPanther is around. On top of that the MT currently allows some Axis tanks to one shot Allied tanks. This happens far too quickly, and for Allied players attempting to deal with heavies this is far too potent. It should be brought in line, because it is still cheaper than the Soviet version. |
Other than the engineer,Bofors and T4 change, these are just stupid changes.
Please don't post if you don't add to the conversation.
My wishlist is
Make t34 usfull
Remove forward retreat points from allfactions
Decrease anti tank options from axis ( stushots, cammo from jpz4, camo on raketten while moving. Remove sreck blob.
Increase antitank options on usf, means accurasy move speed penetration of at gun. Give them anti tank mines.
Rework uslees commaders and abilities. Accuracy , rotation penetration on su85, jackson
Much of what you have stated here is already in the patch. I don't see the need to include it in this post. You are also too vague about other components. For example, what is meant by "Accuracy...Jackson."
Terminator rifles?
Command vehicle free recon?
Very cost effective cromwell?
OP Land matress?
The Terminator rifles is a more a problem with the ability to get extremely powerful weapons, and multiple of them. The rifles themselves without upgrades are not as nasty. The addition of more AI power on volks will also help to even this out.
The CmdV free recon is good, but I don't think particularly problematic. Maybe a slight munitions cost.
Cromwell is cost effective for sure, but I think the unit is in the right place.
Land mattress is getting heavily nerfed this patch already, why would I continue to punish it?
Do something with infantry that may pop out of any building
I don't like these either, but this suggestion is too vague to work with.
Why would anyone pick the Jagdtiger over the KT with these changes? You are making it terrible.
I am making the JT a mobile 88mm gun, that is in line with its cost. You would pick it if your opponent has invested heavily in assault guns of any kind, or there are multiple fireflies. Currently it operates like a long range tank, which is completely absurd because it hard counters anything with wheels, and can still reliably snipe infantry. If you use it correctly it won't change. You will notice I have not suggested changing a single stat on its vet, gun, accuracy, RoF, etc., only that it require from the player who uses it more forethought, and better micro. Currently it requires little to no care, which is completely in contrast to the effort required to kill it. The upgrade for the engine is especially pointless because now that OKW has munitions you will always have the resources to make it faster. It is not a choice so much as a bit of annoying micro you have to do when you call-in the unit.
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Below I list my wishlist for the coming patch, thoughts, ideas, and criticism welcome.
Engineer vet
(Gameplay)
Currently engineer units that upgrade to sweepers have a minimal chance to gain vet, a core concept in COH2. The American and Brit armies can upgrade weapons to relieve this problem, but the Soviets and Wehr cannot. This will bring all engineer units in line with OKW.
-Engineer units can backpack their minesweepers
JagdTiger
(Balance)
The JT has an unfair effect on team games where it becomes a near impossibility to trade with efficiently. It also nullifies non-turreted assault guns too effectively.
-Range reduced to 80 (to normalize with 17pdr)
-Call-in changed to one time (to encourage good use of TD)
-Engine upgrade removed (to encourage good placement and limit ability to influence multiple areas of the battlefield, also allow a good flanking attack to succeed)
-Barrage range normalized with main gun (have the same range to make it obvious to all players its area of effect)
CmdPanther
(Balance)
The CmdPanther is too strong at higher levels of vet. It is still a very attractive tank at vet 0.
-Vet bonuses removed from 3, 4, and 5
-Standard Panther bonuses applied to vet 3, 4 and 5
-MT brought in line with Soviet equivalent (35% increased damage)
Bofors
(Gameplay and balance)
The Bofors completely denies early Wehr play without a FHT. Even with a FHT the Wehr player is very vulnerable to be out teched and must rely heavily on munitions based abilities to attack the Bofors. From the Brit point of view, the Bofors is central to denying the enemy map area while they tech to tanks. The Bofors however generates extremely boring and static play. The changes attempt to please both players.
-Bofors barrage removed (no longer nullifies mortars)
-Bofors gains suppression on its regular fire to deny infantry simply approaching the gun from the front
Schwer HQ
(Gameplay and balance)
Similar to the Bofors the Schwer completely denies interesting flanking from infantry. In teamgames it can be combined with other units too quickly, completely denying whole areas of the map at no additional cost to a team. Indirect fire is far too vulnerable attempting to take it down because of the length of time required.
-Schwer HQ requires upgrade to use gun
On-map static artillery guns
(Balance)
Artillery guns are countered in a binary fashion (access to off-map artillery strikes, then on-map static artillery not useful). In team games especially the idea that a team would not have access to off-maps is unthinkable. The solution applied to AT guns would work well here.
-Guns now survive with 5% health when crew is killed. |
Meh, i feel like it's just lazy job of not giving it a proper veterancy.
Nerf vet0 aura and make it scale with vet levels. At some vet level, consequences of officer dying could be changed to pinned/suppressed instead of retreat.
I agree, and I like this idea. The unit should have vet because that is how COH plays.
I will say though that in team games this unit is quite effective. The commander is very potent, and the ability to buff allied units (mortars, MGs, etc.) at little to no risk is pretty good. If anything it encourages blobbing because you want to stay close to get the buffs. |
Each and every of these solutions is by leaps and bounds more reasonable than the Sturmpocalypse.
If they do go ahead with the Sturmpioneers, they SERIOUSLY need to consider reworking their veterancy and adjusting the MP cost. Otherwise it's going to be insane; even for a balance mod.
Sturmpioneers are NOT squishy at all
They feel squishy because they don't get Vet; currently.
They start off with 87% received accuracy at Vet0, and move on to 51% received accuracy at Vet4. Vet3 "terminator" Riflemen have 59% received accuracy at Vet3.
This means that Sturmpioneer get 15% received accuracy bonus ON TOP of Vet3 Riflemen.
You are going to LOVE those snipes
When a SP reaches Vet5, they get a cumulative 68% accuracy bonus. Assuming a target size of 20 (most medium tanks), SP will have 100% far accuracy vs enemy tanks that happen to cross their tanks. Fun! 
On top of that, you will have 3 models free dishing out that Schreck-vetted AI power and spamming stun grenades.
Sturmpioneers are just another T0 unit; what changes really?
The reason that nobody ever builds more than 2 Sturmpioneers is because they have very little combat utility the moment the first light hits the field. If you've spammed 4 Sturmpioneers, you are probably going to get destroyed by the first m20. With Screck Sturms, why would you ever open your games with anything but SPs?
The main reason why schreck blobs feel so powerful is because their host is a T0 unit. This means that you can freely spam that T0 unit (Volks) without having to worry of any consequences that follows; the game has got your back, when you need it (panzerschreck upgrade).
For those of you that don't know, Panzergrenadier blobs are also effective. However it is very difficult to achieve that critical mass. This is because by the time Panzergrenadiers become available, you already had to spend a crap-ton of manpower on anti-infantry stuff. You CAN'T afford to start spamming 340 PGrens on top of what you've spent; you need to tech up and start tapping on your fuel reserves.
What we are going to see with SPs is a meta reversal. Nobody sane is going to bother with Volks until they get T1/T2 up (Volks don't have access to nades/fausts before that) -- maybe one single squad for capping.
If OKW MUST have schrecks, they should not get it on a T0 unit. It can be Obersoldaten, or it can be a completely different unit on another tier.
Lots of good bits here. I was hoping more players would see it so I am giving it my +1 |
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What people are forgetting about SP is that at vet 2, which was hard to gain before but not now, they get received accuracy bonuses. At this point they stand up quite well to Allied infantry until Allied infantry hit vet 3. But here's the thing, when Allied infantry get to vet 3 you are likely on your way or already rolling in vet 4 and 5 on the SP. This means you can repair tanks near instantly, plant mines near instantly, and afford to send SP on long flanks because they can sweep for themselves and survive by retreating if they run into trouble. Even if you try to stop them they can stun grenade a nearby supporting infantry squad and then finish off the Allied tank.
SP's with shreks is a bad idea. The OKW should not have every tool, they should have an obvious weakness. I would like to see the options for OKW mid game increase to help them hold up against light tanks, but giving SP yet one more job and mixing a dangerously overburdened unit with heavy AT is foolish. Especially considering the number of other weapons and combos that SP have access to. |
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Penals replace shocks only in that they provided a way to avoid needing shocks. Their powerful AI was offset by the need to tech and upgrade them. Shocks offered a doc way to get a fast moving assault infantry by only investing MP. Shocks also offered far less in urban maps, because without a flamethrower units could dance in and out of buildings.
I agree with Mr. Smith about the shrek upgrade giving OKW all the tools in the tool box. They now have the best of all factions with the downsides of none. What is it OKW is supposed to do worse, where is the weakness? I think increasing the AA HT's AT potency would have been more than enough. This way they could avoid needing early mech, while also synergizing with the new snare abilities. True shrek blobs are gone, but now a volks can run forward snare, and allow a SP to fire away. Oh and now that SP will gain vet at ridiculous rates anticipate extremely high repair/building rates. Oh and one more bit, since they can tuck their minesweeper away they avoid shrek dropping or they can sweep for themselves when they rush forward. The unit is unclear in its function in the current mod. |
I don't understand the purpose of this unit ... it's supposed to be a Pack Howitzer on tracks, but why do I actually need that?
Long story short: the Scott is pointless and always will be.
The Scott should provide highly mobile AI with artillery. It should be the go to when the Pak howie is at risk of being decrewed from indirects or the American player is seeing a heavy investment in Wehr T2 after purchasing T4. It was not useless when it initially came out, it was too good at drive by wipes through the FoW.
Scotts fit the American need for rapid light artillery support for advancing infantry pushes. |
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This tank is in one doc, B4 commander, which is not important in the meta. If the B4 functioned at all I would consider balancing this unit. Honestly though with SU85 buffs this unit maybe sufficient as is, but so rarely used hard to really know. |
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