Are you suggesting that an SU85 can fight off infantry?? Also why woukd you not circle strafe a stug? Taking pointless damage doesnt really seem like a sound strat unless you like repairing vehicles.
I'm not saying that there is an issue with the SU85's AT ability, all I'm getting at is that it is harder to use assault guns properly than it is to use real tanks. Also just because a stug3 is harder to use than the slightly more expensive p4 doesn't mean that the stug itself needs to be buffed. A stug3 in the hands of a good player does surprisingly well against enemy tanks and can be a viable AT option when there are not enough resources available to tech to panthers.
If stugs were buffed like a lot of people want them to be (either by making them better or by lowering the cost significantly) it could produce a balance issue rather than fixing anything. However along the same lines I don't quite understand why its hitbox was adjusted ... That seemed like a silly and unnecessary move unless I'm missing something which I very well could be.
Stugs III are poor at what they do, and getting vet on them would be nice but it is hard to do, especially as the game goes on. The recent bug in target weak point has not helped their case. Even before since Stugs don't get much of an armor buff most tanks can take them down in 2 or at most 3 shots. Mark target on a Stug is just ugly.
In my experience Stugs and SU85's fair equally well against infantry. Since 85's have more time to fire, and stugs really only have a mg. Stug's are so weak as to be unusable, and their slightly better AT stats don't get put to use since they are so so vulnerable to everything. Problem is if my opponent goes T34 and I look for the counter (Stug) it under performs in almost every way. I am willing to bet Stug's will get buffed soon. |
What? He lost a game to a multiple IL2 runs but he did little to nothing to counter it.
Despite what people are trying to imply here Ostwind is pretty effective against attack planes. It can struggle with a recon one but will get attack one quite easily.
The game I remember most recently we did have 3 ostwinds, which shot down 1 plane. So balance...?
Seriously though, I keep saying it but you never address it, you cannot allow an ability in a team game to be completely dominating even if it appears rarely in 1v1. Ost strafing run was good in 1v1, but unstoppable in team games so it had to be changed. This is the same problem. It was under performing before, so it got buffed, and now it is too strong so it needs a nerf.
Are you seriously arguing an artillery strike should always kill at least one infantry squad no matter what the other player does?
Ability is OP in 1v1, it just comes up rarely. OP abilities need nerfs. |
Large team games such as 3v3 and 4v4 will never be balanced. Ever.
It is simply impossible to do so. Even majority of the maps in CoH2 are too small for larger games. Played 3v3 on Rzev? You don't even have space for flanking on most of them.
You can try to justify 3v3 balance as much as you want but it's pointless. These kind of games don't even represent true issues with the game or balance concerns. They are to random. They'are fun to play, you can't deny that, but that's it. You can't even take these kind of modes seriously.
You are mistaking balance for playability. This ability (Sov strafe) is completely dominating in team games. I don't expect perfect balance and yet I do want to be able to play the game type. It is not fun if at the 15 minute mark I lose to three strafing runs.
I really disagree with you on strategy in larger games. In low level larger games strategy is limited. But in higher levels games there is a very great strategic depth. Flanking on Rzehv is actually incredibly important. You may have three main routes, but you need to decide when to hit them. Do you all go together at the same point, do you spread out, how do you spread out, when do you attack...? so forth and so on.
I take those modes seriously in that I want the better team to win. Not some stupid random strafe to decide the game. |
I enjoy team games as well. 2v2 is my favorite game mode anything bigger than this I play only for fun and don't expect to be balanced to the same level as 1v1 is. Quite often 3v3 is a unit spam and nothing more, it's hard to get all players with the same skill and you are carried or dragged by your teammates quite a lot as a result. It's easier to gain resources as well so it's normal to see very powerful abilities more than once in the game. It's possible to have opponents gang up on you 3v1. How will you consider balance issues when that happens? To what extend it was a balance issue? Or maybe it was your team not playing together?
You have made this argument earlier in this post and it was addressed there. I will address it here once more:
1) 2v2+ games cannot become a dumping ground for OP abilities that rarely get used in 1v1
2) Team games deserve to be balanced to a degree as they are part of the purchased game
3) Large changes that are clearly bad for balance in 2v2+ but do not change 1v1 should still be changed.
4) Balance on a unit by unit basis is done in 1v1, but the meshing of all units together requires careful balance to allow team games to work
Resource points are approximately as numerous in 1v1 maps as they are in team games with minor exceptions. The difference is that larger number of players mean the game usually goes on longer, because a clear winner takes longer to find.
If you are seeing a lot of unit spam in 3v3 and 4v4 games you need to really look for higher level play. I can promise you at the higher levels of play unit spam is not the plan. I see as diverse armies in larger games as in small. I rarely have more than 2 of the same unit in 3v3+ games even when I have 10 or more units. |
Not seriously man? Do you expect the molotov to somehow magically disappear mid-air? That would be ridiculous. It doesn't Work like that with any other nades anyway, so why the Molotov?
What the previous poster was getting at, was that you can throw them when pinned. That isn't true.
You are still incorrect. If the order was issued before the pin, and the unit is in range when it is pinned. It will wind up and throw a molotov. This is not if the molotov is in the air.
To test this play against a comp or friend, order a conscript to molotov a single mg42, and watch it crawl towards the mg. If it gets pinned as it approaches and it is in range you will watch a model light a bottle and then throw it at the mg while the unit is pinned. Even though you did the wrong thing (approached the front of a 42 with 1 squad and let it get pinned) you will force off the mg42.
As a side note I believe this is the same for all grenades and it should not happen for any unit (Ost or Sov). If you get pinned you should have two options: 1) retreat, 2) take your beating.
This is most commonly seen with conscripts because they are often suppressed and crawling towards an mg42 to throw, whereas other units tend to stand off and throw their grenades. Also users are more risk adverse to placing higher value units under pin to release a grenade. |
The only way RNG will hit you unfairly is if you are a fanboy and only play one faction. If you play both sides and many games, you'll get the same benefit/hurt from RNG in average as everybody else.
This is maths from elementary school.
Although technically true, this is not a logical argument. You are correct that by playing both factions you will get good rolls and bad rolls for both sides. However, to then state that it averages out is incorrect. It only averages out on a faction per faction basis not on an overall game basis.
Let me give you an example if as Soviets you have 1 in 2 chance of wiping every Ost unit off the field with artillery that is RNG. You are going to see the RNG rolls approach 50% (sometimes exceeding, sometimes having a lower percentage than the stated 50%) if you play enough. It does not make the game fun.
OP abilities are not countered by saying if you play enough RNG rounds things out. By that logic we would never have to balance a game with RNG. |
Buffing german units is the answer to every balance thread nowadays. I understand why some like to jump that bandwaggon, but it really won't be good for the game overall.
Isn't the point about the snipers simply, that if they worked as intended and didn't hold fire or get trapped in all kinds of stuff, they would be a decent counter?
The buff suggestion for the Ost sniper has been around for a long time. It is not new. Also to be fair, Ost is likely the underdog right now, so buffing its units makes sense.
As a person with above average micro, I overcome the sniper bug by manual control. Even so it is still not a reliable counter. It is too risky compared to the unit it is trying to counter which is very low risk. Both units provide high reward when used well. |
Thread: Ram bug8 Jan 2014, 14:30 PM
Ram has a minimum range, but it can be ignored in a special case. If a tank is within that minimum range (target x) and another is outside of the minimum range (target y) and y is targeted, and x is contacted, x receives the normal ram damage. This is most obvious when tank x and the T34 are actually touching and then suddenly tank x is disabled as well as the T34.
(Can we please just remove ram already?) |
They cost 440 mp, end of discussion, u need mg protected by grens,and they will force retreat evry time, and that combo cost 480 mp. Reinforce cost is 36 mp, i mean get snipet kill 3 of em with the sniper/grens combo, and that is just devastating for your opponents mp. And u do not have 2 worry about guards if u ge flammer ht, i mean someone is complayning that they are fragile on mines, i mean WTF do you want? U want your ht just wondering around the map killing all soviet infant...? And if the Soviet player is dumb enough and he 2ent T1, he has nothing to counter your flammer ht, until that t70, and u can easly counter that with pgrens with shrecks or pak... There are ways to counter evrything, just THINK! I mean Soviets have 2 face free TA, and instantn vet squads, and the only way 2 counter them are shcks. Just be realistic they are just fine at 1 cp...
FHT is easily beaten by 2 conscripts with at nades so even when player goes shocks the FHT is still not that useful. In addition, the FHT range is the same as the AT nade so how can I use it to kill conscripts without automatically getting hit by AT nades?
After nerfs I have found that FHT is just not worth the munitions. I think there is a small problem with this unit right now, but I don't want to see it go back to the days of the napalm Mercedes.
I don't think arguing that a OP doc makes 1 cp shocks a good idea. I don't own the OP doc so I should just lose because an OP doc exists? Not great logic. |
It is very map-dependant i would say. If soviet bunkers down its really fun to arty on them. Rzhev is a good map for this, pripyat. When playing team I usually skip t3 and go for a panzerwerfer and start bleeding the soviet players. Either shoot at their shocks if you can find them, then ATGs or other semi-static units, lastly fire at Su85s. The thing about arty is you are most likely not going to kill the su85s, but you force them to move about. So use this in conjuction with a push or a flank.
The 120 has actually got nerfed since release, cant remember when though. Its a pain, but something you have to deal with. A solution is to keep mobile, dont leave your crew-weapons at the same spot. Also, try to close in on the opponent so he might mortar himself just as well. Also, the mortar HT (flame barrage)is fantastic to clear 120 mils. Panzerwerfer also does a good job.
We rarely go for elephant, its good to shoot tanks, but expensive and can be rammed. A cheaper thing to get is the pak43, and that vets up silly fast. Situational though, and you will lose it. However, its not very expenisve and more or less payid for itself after 2 tank-kills. It even shoots through buildings and trees, so just place it behind a house and you will have some protection against katyushas.
Lastly, use recon. ALOT. Scout for targets or weakpoints in their defense. Dont let them bunker down to much.
This is all advice for the late game, if you get there. When do you get early Panzerwerfers? Those have not been in time to counter 120's since the beta when they were in T3. I don't disagree with your statements, but players cannot wait in their bases until minute 10 and then attack out.
Also it is definitely not map dependent, if you are referring to Soviets being better. Soviets are better right now. Some maps just exaggerate it worse than others.
Another complaint I have right now is the annoying repair station spam in SI. If the game is evenly matched and the SI player gets a KV2 they often start to spam repair bunkers (this is especially true in team games). Can repair bunkers please count against pop; it does not have to be large? |
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